How big a failure is Obama's presidency?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by We Are Borg, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Don't forget Obama also counts people who crossed the border and are given a letter for a deportation hearing as deportation.
  2. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Link? Hopefully to a creditable source.
  3. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    I updated the table I posted earlier. I accidentally deleted Bush 43 and gave his numbers to Obama. Oopsie.

    It should've read

    Administration - Avg Annual Deportations
    Obama --------- 800,643
    Bush 43 ------ 1,291,106
    Clinton ------- 1,536,363
    Bush 41 ------ 1,040,420
    Reagan ------- 1,034,606
    Carter ---------- 908,314
    Ford ------------ 804,081
    Nixon ---------- 402,866
    Johnson -------- 132,604
    Kennedy --------- 66,636
    Eisenhower ---- 327,091

    Obama's average only includes deportations up through 2012, and since then he drastically slowed it down.
  4. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    The Center for Immigration Studies is not a creditable source.

    Check the list:
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Think_tank

    Also it is has numerous connections to neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups including employing several known neo-Nazis.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies

    Thanks but I think I will trust the ACTUAL government numbers as checked by reputable news orga izations instead of so.e retarded "unskewing the polls" attempt by white power groups with an agenda.
  5. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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  6. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    CIS also was the neo-Nazi "research" organization which published "studies" claiming that blacks and hispanics are genetically determined to be less intelligent and more violent than whites. That "study" was completely debunked by ACTUAL research scientists but, never the less, Republicans kept quoting it and inviting CIS thugs to congressional hearings to explain why dirty brown people are genetically inferior to whites and so shouldn't be let in the country.

    Oh, and they had a highly publicized case where one of the writers of the study was outed as a neo-Nazi but CIS kept him on staff for several months until a photo surfaced of him dressed in a Nazi uniform doing the Seig Heil to a Nazi flag. Then they finaly transfered him but didn't fire him. You can't make this shit up.

    Yet this is who GT chooses to believe over the actual government numbers.
  7. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    You do realize that what you just said is like a Nazi screaming about Jewish science, don't you? Liberals are soooo easily lied to, and citing rationalwiki ranks right up there with going to an Aryan Nations blog for the truth, or the Southern Poverty Law Center, which is about the same thing.

    CIS is run by Mark Krikorian, who writes for the National Review. He's published in the Washington Post and the New York Times, and goes on NPR, PBS News hour, Nightline, and 60 minutes. Their research director has been featured in the Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, and the New York Times, and his analysis runs on MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR. Their board chairman is the former US Attorney for the southern district of California, and he lectures on international relations at the University of California, San Diego.

    Further, all the numbers were actually from the Department of Homeland Security, moron.
  8. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Oy.

    Go look up 'removals vs returns', how deportation is no longer a legal term, the criticism of Bush's Catch and Release program, so he changed the current policy toward prosecuting 'removals' instead of just denying entry at the border which is what was listed as 'returns'. That was 2006.

    Returns is a really problematic metric - if the same guy tried to cross the border 8 times, and is caught and turned back 8 times, he counts as 8 returns. It is pretty meaningless, just a BS way to bump up the numbers.

    Removals are guys who actually were legally deported in the old sense - and have the legal proceedings to show that they are inadmissable - and that's up considerably under Obama. But the policy to stop allowing returns and start focusing on the far more legally intensive process of removals started under Bush. But Obama's group has devoted even more resources to it and those numbers are up considerably.

    Both the National Review and the ACLU claim that it's ridiculous to compare the two numbers - they mean totally different things.

    http://www.vox.com/2014/4/11/560227...ortations-a-very-short-history-of-immigration
    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...er-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants

    We do know based on research that illegal entry into the US is down - which is likely a combination of the Mexican economy improving, as well as the harsh treatment of illegals here.

    Attached Files:

    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    This means nothing. Lies, damn lies and statistics - and of course the numbers you post may COME from DHS, but they are mashed together in an intentionally misleading way.

    What matters is 'removals and returns' - what is actually being done.

    Look at the file I uploaded in the above post which has the numbers broken down as the DHS officially does - removals are far higher under Obama, returns are higher in previous administrations. To Bush's credit, he was the one who looked at the 'catch and release' system - the returns - and modified it so there would be more actual legal proceedings which are the returns.

    Reagan did 25K of them in his best year. Bush did 280K. And Obama did 430K.
    http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_07_31/us/deportation_update.htm

    This is how policy is supposed to work - its reviewed and changed in order to better implement the desired effect. Turns out letting the guys lose and allowing them to try to come back immediately was a crappy policy.
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  10. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    I guess it never occurred to you that if companies that hired illegal aliens to do jobs like pick fruit for 2 dollars an hour COULD NOT do so anymore they would have no choice but to raise the level of pay to get American workers.

    Ample labor supplies tends to hold down rates of pay from what I've observed.
  11. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    But ... but ... when government action necessitates paying higher wages, Atlas shrugs and the economy collapses! Or so I keep hearing.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Commenting back from post #100, but there's a lot of fundamental attribution error going on in this thread...
  13. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    I've never been against govt. action or combined govt./industry actions when necessary.

    For example I've often thought we needed govt/ industrial partnerships to do things like expand refinery capacity and build nuclear power plants.

    Not to mention basic R & D.
  14. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    No earmarks, no R&D.