So can we just declare college a wash?

The company I work for is interviewing Stanford students who aren't even graduating until next year, and many of them already have several offers lined up.

What percentage of people going into college can accurately say what their major will be in four or so years?

Meanwhile at my workplace there are excellent project leads who were history majors, thoughtful design reviewers who were psychology majors, and logistics wizards who were art majors. I don't think your major really says as much about your talents as some (especially those who tend to pigeonhole people) would like to think.

It used to be that a law degree was the fastest economic turn-around on your educational investment.
It makes sense, if you fuck up who is going to be able to sue you?

Even at 34, I still want to go to college. I want more than a degree, though. I want to be a part of something; I want to positively affect the world. I guess it frustrates me that many colleges have become nothing more than degree mills. Bring them in, throw some tests at them, and in a few years hand them a degree, so they can go get a low paying job that we high school diploma hacks can't get.

That's another reason why I'd strongly advise teens to wait a year or two before applying to college. People change majors at least once in their college careers, and usually tack on another year (thus, extra debt) or more in the process doing so. Plus, people's brains aren't even fully developed till after age 25. Fuck, I thought I was gonna be a playwright or in music ten years ago!

Now a law degree is mostly the fastest path to a non-dischargable bankruptcy. $200,000 of debt, if you don't get a big law firm job you're not likely to pull in more than $60,000/yr, and that's only if you're one of the two-thirds or fewer graduates who find actual legal work. $200,000 of non-dischargable debt and a job flipping burgers is a recipe for suicide.

Actually, there's really no one age where you can say "this brain is fully developed" - it keeps changing throughout life; new cells and new connections can still be made.

Maybe waiting a few years to find out what you really want to study would be a good idea, but if you're just going to be unemployed or doing menial jobs are you really going to get that much ahead?

I should clarify that by "fully developed," I meant "able to process and better think decisions through," not to never change and grow as a human being. But by that age is when a person has a better sense of self (moreso than a teen in puberty) and in general can better think things through. Y'all remember how Nick and I used to act when first posted here ten years ago? Both of us were in our teens, but we've since mellowed out and aren't so closed off to other's opinions and other viewpoints. That's what I was getting at.

I'm 6 years out of school now and still can't decide if all the years of study and debt was worth it.

I make 150,000 a year, which would seem like a decent salary to many... but I still have 200,000 of loans to pay off.

And I have another dilemma. I'm considering going back for a 2-3 year post-grad specialty program. That would put me even more in the hole...

But my earning potential could easily double to 300k once I finish.

Worth it?

Also a fair point.

European kids for the most part take a gap year off between secondary school and university. From what I've read about, most go backpacking around Europe or doing some other voluteer/community work, and those that do so tend to graduate at higher rates than those that don't. I do know there are programs out there for kids to do voulteer work of that sort around the world, but most don't know about that, or even have it discussed as a possibility.

What kind of program is this?

If that Forestry Sciences degree helps you get a job that you love, maybe your investment paid off immediately. There's more to life than just money, and with some wise saving choices you can pay off your loans faster than your cohorts who got economics degrees, are miserable, and buy a new car every year.

Of course. If you love something, go do it.

Just do it with full awareness of the costs.

It would be a residency in pediatric dental care...

True the brain makes new connections but the speed in which it makes connections takes a HUGE hit past a certain age. I saw on a series "The Brain - The Universe Within" a side-by-side of a kid's brain learning new information and a 50 year old's brain. It was not even close. True, wisdom, and yada yada yada matter in the working world. But still, you have to get new and changing information fast and retain it or you are sucking hind tit when learning.

Hell, I got that without even going to college.

Let's see, my wife and I both went to art school. She wanted to be a fashion illustrator or a photographer, I wanted to be a cartoonist. She graduated, I dropped out. She became a book keeper/office manager, I became a draftsman and corporate chart maker.

Bingo.

It is just a statistical reality that most jobs are what you would refer to as soul draining. I was there with your attitude when I was younger and dealing with a rather hard call center job. My attitude became shit after a while, and I had a decent boss at the time who asked me what the problem was. The job never actually changed from being a horrible form of work, but I took stock of it and I had benefits, good pay, was moving up with a career goal, that was not to mention it enabled me to do things I loved. People get into a rut, and often it is not the job that does it. They stop doing the things they love, or have children. Talk about your life sucking little maggots, children are worse than any job for soul sucking. Not everyone is special to the world, and the world does not have a place for everyone to be special. Some people have to do those jobs you look down upon, and you attitude about it and the judgment you and society put on them are the suck. I have met many a good person who sits at those desks tirelessly, and I have had to teach many of them how to shrug off your judgments and have the fun they deserve for the hard work they do.

Also, I know what it takes to walk out of that world and start fighting for your own. I have owned my own businesses, and you wanna talk soul sucking. At least when you work for someone else you can take a day or two off. You have to be your own dynamo to keep up the energy and dedication to watch over your own business. When the shit hits the fan, or the bottom starts to drop out it is up to you to pull through, and you may have a bunch of people relying on you to do so. Yopu have to take energy from the fight when you have none, and the woprries and what ifs are always there stressing you. It is not for everyone.

I am not going to say you cannot find a great job, or that you should not look for one. After all it is rare to have a good job land in your lap. However, find worth in what you have now because that dream does not always come for people, and you cannot let your life's happiness rely on your job.

Typical modern teacher, start whining when the going gets tough. I used to hate my teachers because they were not nice. Now i see what happens with nice teachers. No respect, and your useless.

You're doing it wrong.

And trust....that's a pretty conservative estimate. Only kids with rich parents or generous scholarships escape a US med school with so little debt. Average cost of attendance is 55 - 75K per year. The exception being those lucky bastards in Texas. Assuming no scholarships/family to help pay, that's all in unsubsidized loans that are gaining interest throughout your 4 years of med school and your 3-6 years of residency. Sorry for the random rant.....the figures are seriously fucking scary.

I enjoyed undergrad and am happy I went, but there's no way I could claim it was "worth it" financially. Maybe if you went the PhD route, but a bachelors in Neuroscience? Pretty useless by itself. As is being at the top of your class when you come from a no-name state school. I'm basically qualified to wash glassware in a lab for $12 an hour.

That is insane.

If Obama was smart, he would put some sort of subside aside for med students. More patients on the ACA equals more need for doctors...and if they can't get paid shit tons of cash, at least they needn't drown in debt.

Mrs. A, really glad you are "In" ! And back here too. Lemme know if you need help establishing residency in Tejas.

[deleted reply to OP. Meh, no real point to re-type it after the board ate it. In short, agreed Anna, demand is going up, and proportionate supply of MDs is almost certainly going down]

Not "in" yet. Waiting to hear back from several interviews. Still silence from 13 schools, too. Since JULY! But thanks for the thought anyway. Tryin' to keep the hope alive, but it sure is a soul-sucking process.

Totally agree, Anna. It's hard to think rationally about the debt vs income when you basically have no idea what specialty you'll be competitive for. A half a million dollars of debt is ridiculous if you really want to be a family doc, but if you're going to end up a plastic surgeon and you start young, it's still financially viable. It's why I'm especially fond of the programs aimed at subsidizing tuition for primary care physicians committed to working in rural or extremely poor areas. I think it's more of a distribution problem than an actual shortage.

80k in North Dakota is like 180 k, no?

I thought that as a result of all these high-paying jobs, rent and other cost-of-living expenses out in the Dakotas rivaled those of New York City?

It probably depends on which part of the state you are in. At the oil boom towns a lot of those towns previously had populations of 500 which boomed to 10,000 so there are housing shortages so prices get bid up to NYC levels.

Only west of Bismarck. One the east side $80,000 is still big bucks, although there's still a slight crunch in affordable houses (i.e., anything under 200,000).