Anita Sarkeesian presents: Eight things developers can do to make games less shitty for women.

http://kotaku.com/how-anita-sarkeesian-wants-video-games-to-change-1688231729/ charliejane

The linked article is much, much longer, but it also offers more insight into the suggestions themselves.

Let the outrage commence.

1) Depends on the game, some places that games take place you wouldn't find a lot of women. I dislike when devs try to add diversity for the sake of diversity.

2) Most American games are already away from this, go yell at Japanese devs.

3) Anita is going to have to get over this, people don't buy games to look at ugly people (male or female)

4) Games are full of strong men and curvy women, again, people aren't paying to see ugly people.

5) Games I play seem to have plenty of black female characters.

6) Sometimes true, but in most games not an issue

7) OK, this pretty much just sounds like insanity on her part.

8) And as soon as they do the internet will explode in rage about men killing women. Also, people still aren't buying games to see ugly people.

You know, if people are interested in her vision of gaming she is certainly free to start making games. The crowd funding sources are there. Chris Roberts has raised $74 million dollars to make a space sim game...completely from crowd funding.

But she really doesn't want that, she wants other people to foot the bill for her vision and she is trying to extend her 15 minutes.

But of course 14th doesn't actually know anything about the subject, so he once again will just pick the side that he views as politically correct.



The real irony is, I bet if someone were saying the exact same things about women on TV 14th would be one of the first people to denounce them as a prudish bible thumping fundie.

Who's Anita Sarkeesian? What's she done for gaming that she's in a position to make demands of the industry?

Let her make her own game with an all-female roster and have all the characters look like Ann Ramsey and Kathy Bates if that's what she wants.

Before I jump into this, let's get one piece of terminology straight for further reference.

When you call Sarkeesian's list of, quote, "eight things developers can do to make games less shitty for women", her "demands", that's your general use of that word, right?

Any blog post that starts with "Here are ten things that would make the Star Wars prequels less shitty" is a list of demands, and the author should be questioned as to the legitimacy with which they make demands of Lucas/Disney?

Any time you say, "That Who/Borg crossover comic was shitty because...", you have first secured your right to demand that the BBC, Paramount, and Image Comics bend to your will?

"Snow in April is just a shitty thing to see on your birthday" presupposes the speaker's justified and documented right to make demands of the weather fairy?

Because otherwise, you'd just be introducing a strawman to defend a public space against a voice you'd rather not hear, and that can't be right, can it?

There are any number of things developers can do to make games more appealing to women. A numbered list is a list of demands, no matter how passive-aggressively she titles it.

Does she wish this list to be applied universally, or to trend towards them?

Major issue is that a lot of gamers are male, the games are coded by males, who were brought up playing games coded by males who were brought up on the likes of Mario where you rescued the princess.

There is also the fantasy woman element, a lot of game geeks may stick their nose up at popular culture, but that doesn't stop it soaking into their psyche and they're just as likely to go goggle eyed at a massive rack and arse as anyone else, with the added bonus that - outside of a Wheatus song - they're not going to get that fantasy girl, so that sells.

Like it or not, that is cornerstone of a lot of geek culture and geek cultural references - Leonard and Penny anyone? There we have the fantasy girl that he eventually gets, and we've had the reverse where Penny turns into unwashed gamer in one ep. Geek chic is soaked into it, and we even see the reverse with females, albeit their fantasy male is usually closer to the anime male type rather than the DC/Marvel all-abs-and-biceps type. And yes, there is an increasing amount of stuff targeting them.

So I see no issue with developing and releasing games along her rules, she just needs to realise that change is both incremental and takes time.

1,5,6,7 and 8 are entirely reasonable to do now though, but personally, given we're in an era where you don't need a big games house backing you and you can get software like Unity, you can get crowdfunded, and she a level of infamy, in her boots I'd be setting up a crowdfunded games house.

Sure! And more power to her if she does it, too. But presenting a passive-aggressive laundry list for other developers, who are in business to sell games to the market that exists, to cater to just to satisfy her, that's a few degrees at least beyond the pale.

Like Packard, I'm not sure why the list is seen as a set of demands. They are recommendations, and some of them pretty good, especially for somebody interested in expanding their general audience. Hopefully some will see it as advice and incorporate some of it. According to Archangel, it's already happening, so good. And I agree with others that this might be a useful road map to somebody looking to get started with some new development ideas. But it's a free market, nobody should suggest the list is a mandate, just as nobody should go crazy at the notion that somebody might write such a list.

Definitely makes games better. Roleplaying and Adventure games often already do this; action-heavy games, platformers and other more cartoony depictions frequently don't.

Very much in agreement with all of these. Why do I have to look at Miranda's ass whenever Sheperd talks to her? Why does the 80-year-old magical healer in my DragonAge party have the smae body and movements as my 16-year-old little sister?

Not wild about the male caveat. Including more unmotivated focus on male behinds isn't going to make things better.

Like @Archangel, I don't see as much of a lack as this, but sure, go for it.

Yes. This is awkward and strange when it happens, and it happens quite a bit.

Again, I don't know that we have a lack of these, but it can't hurt to have more.

Yeah, Mari Shimazaki, you misogynist!

Granted. But female characters still deserve more personality than "the female one."

No one said ugly. But here's an example from the article:

Again, the linked article has an example of this embedded.

From the article:

Try it. Start at thread. See what happens.

She's as fake as Fox News is what she is.
If she were asking for more Jesus in games, leftforge would see right through her.
It saddens me to see people I otherwise respected falling for the same exact baloney just because the right pitch of snake charmer flute is being played.

Yes, because asking for better representation of half the population is that same thing as asking for ""more Jesus."

It's just a thing in the world.
I've seen women giving birth, and thought their pain noises were orgasm-y.
Some women's pain sounds are just like that.
Women tend towards orgasm-y, guy pain sounds like taking a shit.
It's just noises.
People label it with their own crap.
I agree with Archangel on #7.

1. Things are already getting better.
2. This is why I compared her to Fox News, she doesn't really give a shit.

So she's not allowed to comment now?

Weren't you the one moaning and bitching before about Packard and I claiming to know what you're thinking?

Yeah, I turn myself inside out to defend freedom of speech, but I want voices to be silenced, because that's a thing I do.
You've known me for a decade, and have the balls to ask me shit like that?
Chrissakes.

One doesn't need psychic powers, the rotten things she's said on Twitter, and her hypocrisy I pointed out at post #10 paint a clear enough picture for me.

This thread is about a list of 8 suggestions Anita Sarkeesian presented. You're attempting to make the discussion about Sarkeesian herself.

Maybe whine less about the messenger and talk about the actual message?

Post #2 and #10 answered them sufficiently, IMHO.

Post #2 was indeed a solid attempt. Good on Archie for sincerely trying.

Post #10 was snarky bullshit misdirection that answered nothing.

You're too lazy to Google "Mari Shimazaki"?
Most browsers have the option to highlight and Google a word, you don't even have to type.
If you can't accomplish click, drag, right click, left click, there's no hope for you.

Good luck with that. I'll leave you to it.

Flying fucking Spaghetti Monster!

THERE!!!!!!!

So?

It's good for illustrating their true colors. It also shows how quickly they will turn on those on their own side who have the audacity to break from the heard.

So everything.
A female game developer makes a character, and Sarkeesian still hates it.
Did Shimazaki make the character (Bayonetta) the way she did because she genuinely likes characters like that, and some female gamers do too?
Did she do it because of financial pressures?
Fitting in with the boys club?
Did she "internalize toxic identity messages of the patriarchy"?
Someone would have to ask her.
Don't hold your breath on Sarkeesian bothering to do so.
Getting answers contrary to her narrative isn't something she's in business for.
I do know that if a man hand-waved away a female created piece of art as "a fuck doll", there'd be calls for his head on a pike.

BTW, this thread is just a weak troll attempt where 14th and company will spend another 10 pages ignoring reality and push their narrative.

I will not be participating further, I recommend others follow suit.

Shout out for @Diacanu's Jade Shade series, which has female characters that meet most of those principles...

So we've gone from "she's lying" through "she's wrong" and "she's right, but there's nothing that can be done" to "these are valuable points, but she's still evil because she secretly disagrees with them while saying them publicly".

For those of us who know her heart of hearts less well than Diacanu, I guess we'll just have to judge her by what she does.

So? Are you under the impression that misogyny, patriarchy, or just stereotypical depiction of women is something that men do to women?