Yet another reason why the prequels sucked.

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by Ramen, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. Ramen

    Ramen Banned

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  2. Herbalist

    Herbalist Masterdebater

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    I tried to watch The Phantom Menace yesterday thinking it's been almost 10 years since I've seen this thing, it can't be as bad as I remembered and was hit in the face with how absurdly racist it is. Still even the overt racial stereotypes aren't as bad as the dialog and chemistry between Portman and Hayden Christensen in the other two. God they were awful.
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  3. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    Phantom Menace was just so goddamned boring. I only watched it from beginning to end once, at the theater. When I got the DVD, I fell asleep shortly after the pod race, no matter the time of day. :shrug:
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  4. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    There's a great article with Mark Hamill and Anthony Daniels absolutely ripping Lucas on his directing. Absolutely hilarious.

    http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/23/star-wars-force-awakens-when-c-3po-reunited-luke-skywalker

    But yeah, the biggest issue with ROTS, which otherwise I thought was a pretty good movie, was that moment when Anakin killed the padawans. As far as I'm concerned that makes someone unredeemable. And it was totally unnecessary for him to do it himself.

    The biggest issues with the prequels was there was no one left to tell Lucas when he was off his rocker.
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  5. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Well, that's why Anakin could only be redeemed in death.
    There couldn't be an alternate timeline where he lived, and became Nice-Vader.
    If Palpatine's lightning didn't fry his life support, he should have jumped down the reactor shaft after him anyway.
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  6. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    As a kid, ESB was my favorite because I loved Hoth and Dagobah, but I always fell asleep before Cloud City, so watching ROTJ was super confusing. I don't think I saw the whole movie until high school.
  7. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    I recall Natalie Portman's comment about her first role after the trilogy: "It's so nice to be directed again, instead just told where to stand!" :lol:
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  8. Archangel

    Archangel Primus Peritia

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    I hope the new movies make a few gazillion dollars and Disney decides to whip out the same pen they used to declare the expanded universe non-canon and do the same to the prequals. Then announce they will be making new ones.


    A guy can dream.
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  9. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    I fully supported the killing of the padawans. For freedom to reign, the multi-generational rule of a theocracy based on violence and force had to end.
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  10. K.

    K. Sober

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    It's interesting that the original Star Wars showed Vader participating in blowing up whole planets, and redemption seemed possible. But now that a younger version in a state of madness killed 30 kids, he has become unforgivable?

    (Of course, the prequels are truly unforgivable for hundreds of other reasons, and there was no good reason for those murders, just as there was no good motive for practically anything any character did in them.)
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  11. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    I think Alderaan was Tarkin's call. Vader didn't care to stop him, of course.
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  12. ed629

    ed629 Morally Inept Banned

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    That part always makes laugh, that kid's face just says "I'm so fucked."



    Anyway, here's a happier version of it.

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  13. Will Power

    Will Power If you only knew the irony of my name.

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    Mannequin Skywalker was exactly what Hatehim Christensen was in eps 2 & 3! And Lucass should be given 100 life sentences with no parole in the worst grimy slimy prison in the world for editing out the late Sebastian Shaw from the end of ROTJ & replacing him with Christensen:(
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  14. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    Episodes 1 and 2 are so boring. 3 was good but even that had it's problems.

    Why oh why did Lucas change the reason for Anakin's turn to the dark side? Wanting to become more powerful and rule the galaxy would have fit perfectly with what we knew about Vader. Adding in the save Padme shit made no sense.
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  15. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

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    Heh, yeah, he was after all the Grand Moff.
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  16. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    That along with the new dance at jabba's palace and Vader screaming NO! are the reasons I was VERY happy to see Lucas leave. At some point the shitting on the OT had to end.
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  17. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Well, going back to the original Star Wars movie, the cast members are said to actively have hated George Lucas's direction. In particular Lucas was absolutely horrendous at directing real actors in live action sequences.

    Reportedly, Harrison Ford exclained "Tell George it ain't easy saying this shit!" (referring to the dialogue).
  18. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    The whole series had everything backwards. Let me just pick one character, Darth Vader, among the many I addressed years ago:

    Just compare Anakin's acts as a Jedi to his acts as Darth Vader.

    As a Jedi, Anakin slaughtered Tusken men, women, and children; a whole village of them. Lucas uses fancy music to imply this was an act of the Dark Side, and tries to confirm it with Yoda's babblings about fear. If it truly was the Dark Side then why'd the Jedi welcome him back, since they react to any whiff of the Dark Side like a Pentecostal glimpsing a Satanic tattoo on a fat whore's cellulite ass? The very next day Anakin breaks in to a factory and starts cutting down Geonosian workers left and right, proud union men, like an aristocratic warrior-caste killer who thinks it's his divine right to rule over the workers with the lash and the sword. For this, he was applauded by Yoda, who showed up with an army of clones to wipe out the rest of those buzzing, petulant workers. In between episodes II and III Anakin was apparently a shitstorm of death and destruction.

    Yet as Vader, Anakin merely ended the Jedi reign, decapitated the leadership of the separatist movement in about two minutes, ending a galactic WAR, and choked a squawking general. Lucas makes us think he choked the general to death, but any doctor could tell you that to choke someone to death Vader would have to stand there and burn up five minutes of screen time. You find you were once again misled now, weren't you? Yes, as Darth Vader Anakin shot down a couple rebel fighters intent on the destruction of government property. He was attacked by Luke Skywalker, who'd sought him out, and responded in self-defense, of course stopping himself to offer co-rule of the freakin' galaxy. Really evil, eh?

    When the Emperor, in a drunken rage (power is better than whisky), was about to grievously injure Luke, Vader picked the Emperor up and tossed him down a shaft. However, no jury in the galaxy could convict him, since half his parts were electro-mechanical and the Emperor was zapping him with Force lightning, inducing cyborg spasms. That's right. Taking in the entire Star Wars saga, you couldn't get a civilian grand jury to indict Darth Vader for assault. Contrast that with the record of the Jedi and your beloved rebels.

    Episode I: Interference with the operation of a space of a vessel, attempted hijacking, destruction of property, flight to avoid arrest, gambling, attemped theft by deception, slave trafficking, breaking and entering, murder.

    Episode II: Wanton endangerment and wreckless driving (multiple counts), attempted carjacking, interference with the pilot of a vehicle, murder (innumerable counts - Tattoine), child murder (innumerable counts), murder (innumerable counts – Geonosis), destruction of property.

    Episode III: Conspiracy to commit high treason, attempted assassination of the Chancellor of the Republic, attempted murder, kidnapping (two counts), theft (droids), high treason, trafficking in stolen children.

    Episode IV: Treason, theft by unlawful taking, theft by deception, espionage, resisting arrest, flight to avoid prosecution, assault, breaking and entering, aiding and abetting a prison escape, aiding an escaped prisoner, vandalism, more resisting arrest, assault, murder of security officers in the performance of their duties, impersonating military personnel, destruction of government property, murder (innumerable counts).

    Episode V: Treason, flight to avoid prosecution, destruction of yet more government property, murder.

    Episode VI: Treason, sedition, impersonating a deity, resisting arrest, incitement to riot, sabotage, destruction of government property, possession of weapons of mass destruction, murder (innumerable counts).

    If the rebels sometimes had difficulty evacuating their bases, it's because they were bogged down with three Corellian freighters overloaded with the rebels' parsec-length rap sheets. No wonder Kenobi dragged Luke into a den of scum and villainy. To him it felt like home.
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  19. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    The Founding Fathers were traitors, and won.
    The Confederacy were traitors, and lost.
    If you commit treason, you'd best win.
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  20. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    But the regime was so corrupted it's hard to tell the players, especially with Lucas using evil marches for the Sith and soaring themes for the Jedi. He was playing a mind trick on the audience.

    How about a look at another character, Master Mace Windu:

    What an arrogant, power-mad, overblown ass. Sith always come in pairs, a master and an apprentice. Jedi always come in pairs too, a mafia don and a bald goomba with a bad attitude and a purple murder stick. It's not enough that Mace decapitated Jango Fett, the blueprint of the clone army under Yoda's command, but he did this right in front of Jango's own beloved son, following the typical Jedi tactic of intimidation and terror. Like all the Jedi, Mace was a bad seed, a powder keg of wanton violence.

    Upon finding out that the duly elected Chancellor is a Sith, what does Mace do? He goes to kill him. Hell, Islamic jihadist militants are reasonable by comparison. At least they wait to get a fatwa. Could you image a Secret Service officer, some dyed in the wool Protestant, storming into the Oval Office to assassinate the President of the United States of America because someone in the White House press room claimed the President was *gasp* Catholic?

    The Chancellor is a Sith! Big-fucking deal. Bush=Hitler, too. That doesn't give anyone the right to assassinate him. Splash the scandal all over the tabloids. Publish the gritty details in the Galactic Globe and Gazette. Have the Jedi fax-droids bombard the Senators in an avalanche of thermo-paper. Form a non-profit "No Palpatine" 527 PAC and get moving on a no-confidence vote. Level charges of high treason in the Galactic Senate. Subpoena the Chancellor's robes to scan them for Dark-Side auras. Judas H Jedi, you just don't march in with a light saber and decapitate the elected head of the freakin' government.

    Yet Mace storms in to the Chancellor's office, with the Huttzpah to claim he's putting him under arrest. He knows full well that he doesn't have the legal authority to do so, and knows full well that the Chancellor will call his bluff. Given reason to believe that Palpatine is a Sith, and noting that only a fool would think a Sith Lord would surrender alive, Mace's claim that he was there to "arrest" the Chancellor is just another patent Jedi lie. Mace was there to kill the Chancellor, and brought three Jedi goons along to get medieval on his ass.

    Did he go before a judge to get an arrest warrant? No. Did he call any Senators and give them a heads up? No. Did he confer with any lawyers versed in Republic law? No. Did he engage in consultations about the Constitutional ramifications of a Jedi coup d'Etat? No. Did he seek, much less get, permission from the Jedi Council, as morally worthless as that permission would be? Nope. Did he even bother to inform the rest of the Jedi Council that the person who led the vote to field all those Storm Troopers happens to be a Dark Lord of the Sith? Not a chance. Does he even think more than five minutes ahead? You tell me. Like a typical Jedi, Master Windu thinks he can just run amok killing whomever he pleases like some two-credit vigilante assassin. It's the Jedi way.

    Master Windu didn't give any of the legal options a second's thought, because Master Windu didn't give a damn about legalities. He took it upon himself to arrest, nay assassinate, the Supreme Chancellor of a democracy. Just who the fuck does he think he is? Obviously, Master Windu is an arrogant, bigoted, member of the self-anointed warrior class, one who doesn't give a flying fuck about what little shards of democracy they had left. Even vile Brutus conferred with a multitude of other senators before slaying Julius Caesar, but Mace didn't even trifle with that. If served with cold justice, he wouldn't have suffered dismemberment and defenestration; he'd have been tortured, drawn, and quartered, just like Guy Fawkes after the failed gunpowder plot.

    Hell, the Chancellor should send a squad of storm troopers to find Windu's body, joyously splattered all over the pavement, and have them peel him up with a vibro-spatula™ so they can toss him out the window again, being sure to make a holo of the head-bursting impact. Master Windu was a traitorous assassin, a vile asp loosed upon an unsuspecting democracy in time of peril. Anakin was right to hack off Mace's arm the very instant Mace moved to strike down Palpatine, citing the patent illegality and immorality of it, but it's too bad he couldn't hack off Mace's ego. Killing that took a close encounter of the paved kind.

    Now what kind of man would Anakin be if he allowed, by action or inaction, this dreadful assassination plot to succeed? What could he say but, "I didn't stab poor Caesar, I just stood by and rubber-necked." A man has to be able to face himself in the mirror every morning (unless he has a spankin' cool helmet), and to just stand there idly watching Lee Harvey Oswald pull the trigger doesn't cut it. As I said, who cares if the President is Catholic, Sith, or married to Hillary? You can't override the will of the people, tossing aside all legal and governmental structures and mechanisms, to opt for a light saber in service to a vendetta.

    When Anakin arrived, Mace should've ingored Anakin, lowered his saber, and arrested the Emperor, relying on his lines from Pulp Fiction.

    Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I'm in a transitional period so I don't wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can't give you this case, it don't belong to me. Besides, I've already been through too much shit this morning over this case to hand it over to your dumb ass.

    But Master Windu couldn't say that, because those would be the only lines from the movie that we'd remember. That lines written for an honest-to-goodness assassin seem too profound and introspective to be spoken by a Jedi should tell you something. In fact, random assassin dialog from Pulp Fiction rings truer and deeper then the Jedi lies and spin Lucas feeds us. For example.

    The path of the righteous Jedi is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of the Sith. Blessed is he who, in the name of the Force, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am a Jedi when I lay my vengeance upon you.

    I been sayin' that shit for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a motherfucker before you shoved a light saber up his ass. But I saw some shit this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. Light Saber here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the Chancellor that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that shit ain't the truth. The truth is you're the chosen one, and I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Anakin. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd.

    Now that would've added some depth, some honesty to the dialog, but unfortunately honesty and depth are in short supply when the script is written by Jedi apologists, shills, and water carriers. How do you know when Lucas is lying to you? Jedi speak with wooden tongue.
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  21. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    A no confidence vote, and a midi-chlorian test would have ended everything.
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  22. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    Yep. Instead the Jedi spontaneously went for assassination, which didn't work out very well for them.

    The whole story makes more logical sense with the Jedi as the villains. Heck, every time the Imperials captured someone they got a nice cell and good food until they escaped (or got stored safely in carbonite because there were already non-Iimperial warrants out for them). Nobody survived Jedi capture for more than about two minutes.
  23. Archangel

    Archangel Primus Peritia

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    I have no confidence in midichlorians.
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  24. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    Sorry, midichlorians don't exist. It was all a misunderstanding.
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  25. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Yeah, but the premise is that the Senate is in thrall to the Sith, so the vote will not pass. And trying to get a midi-chlorian ccount would be just as easy as arresting him. Yeah, Windu took the law in to his own hands, but that's what you do when you decide to rebel against the sitting government. The question shouldn't be whether he broke the law, as gturner would insist, but whether he was right to do so. As you already pointed out, George Washington broke the law, too.

    If assassinating a Sith lord be treason, then make the most of it.
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  26. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    :)
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  27. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    The prequels screwed up the Aunt Beru situation. In retrospect, Darth Vader would've said "Hey! Why did the rebel ship launch my two droids (one of which I fucking built!) on a course to my mom's house - where I used to hang out?"

    And why didn't C3PO and R2 say "Ah, we're home!" Why didn't Obi Wan say "Fuck! It's Anakin's droids! Vader must be here!"
  28. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    Their memory was wiped at the end of Episode III. There's a very brief throwaway scene where it's mentioned. Probably the only thing in the entire prequel trilogy that made sense.
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  29. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Only 3PO was wiped. The presumption is that R2 is the only character who knows the entire story from the beginning. Although it seems likely that Chewbaca also knows quite a bit more than indicated in the OT.
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  30. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    I might as well post my rant about Obi-Wan:

    Obi-wan. What a piece of human filth is Obi-wan. What a worthless excuse for a friend. What a pathetic loser. What a backstabbing bitch. No wonder he let Darth Vader strike him down. He was a feckless Jedi who knew he could just check out, pull a "beam me up Scotty," and ascend to a higher plane where he didn't need a pair of artificial hips, a new set of dentures, and a pair of real balls. Faced with the greatest test imaginable, he took a tummy strike and ejected from this mortal world. What a real Little Leager. On the bright side, he voluntarily reduced the Jedi population by 50%, surely making his action second only to Palpatine and Vader's in the pantheon of Sith victories.

    Let me list the universe of reasons that Kenobi is a pathetic pustule on the ass of the galaxy.

    He held Anakin back for too long, failing him in his training, which cost Anakin an arm.

    To protect Senator Amidala he, along with Yoda, had Anakin marooned on Naboo, covering for their own incompetence, and this cost Anakin his mother.

    During the Clone Wars Anakin had to save his wretched life countless times. So how did he repay these accumulating life debts? By destroying Anakin's life.

    First, Obi-wan fed Anakin's great love and the mother of his children, Padmé Amidala, scandalous innuendo. From this she never recovered, even though Anakin only acted out of his profound love for her.

    Then Obi-wan plants more worries in her head, conning her into flying off to Anakin. Of course, Obi-wan then slips on board her ship to continue his back stabbing treachery, because breaking up the world's most loving couple just isn't enough.

    So Obi-wan lets the beautiful and very pregnant Senator fly to the enemy's home base in the middle of a WAR on a ship that just screams, "I'm the Nabooian Queen who wrecked your plans time and time again – the one you tried to hold hostage – the one you tried to assassinate on at least three occasions." You'd think he was trying to get her killed. Needless to say, she didn't survive a single day under his "benevolent" protection.

    The ship lands and Master Kenobi just allows her waddle right out onto the tarmac of the ENEMY BASE without any clever disguise, body-double, or even a good blaster. That's friendship for you. She's just another disposable pawn for the Jedi to sacrifice.

    So Obi-wan lets Padmé, heavily pregnant Padmé, stand out there, sucking down volcanic carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, NOx compounds, chlorine compounds, and heavy metals like a chain smoker in a burning tobacco warehouse. Is it any wonder the med droids were stumped? They probably assumed she'd been breathing, you know, air.

    Then the breathless back stabbing fuckweasel lets Padmé confront Anakin with all the ridiculous claims he's spoonfed her, I suppose just curious to see if Anakin would strike her dead. When that subterfuge failed, he marches out to murder his "friend", already having pretty much ensured the death of his "friend's" wife. This on the planet where Anakin had just minutes before single-handedly ended the Clone War, the great war of Jedi survival, for which Obi-wan didn't even offer a simple "Thanks". That's Jedi gratitude for you.

    Oh-be-damned then spends more time trying to kill Anakin in a long running light saber duel than he'd spent contemplating whether he should set out to kill his closest friend, his apprentice, his padawan – a decision he reached faster than most people take to decide between waffle fries or tater tots. That's Jedi loyalty for you.

    But oh no, Obi-wan wasn't done yet, not by a long shot, the contemptible Master had not yet begun to connive, to screw over, to damn. Teasing Anakin into a very risky move, in a fight Obi-wan started, he slices off Anakin's remaining human arm and both legs, sending the blood-spurting torso tumbling downslope toward the lava. Does Obi-wan do anything? Anything at all? Why yes, he lectures, even as Anakin catches on fire from the tremendous heat of the lava. Useless-one just watches his former padawan slowly burn, screaming and pawing with his one robotic arm, his face and body in flames. His best friend the day before, suddenly he wouldn't piss on Anakin if he were on fire. That's Jedi loyalty. That's Jedi friendship. That's Jedi caring. That's Jedi mercy. In that fire, Anakin suffered more than all the people of Alderaan put together.

    Not deigning to grant Anakin a warrior's death, nor even human mercy, Obi-wan just turns and walks away, his Jedi schemes and treachery not yet complete. He's got to make off with Anakin's wife and unborn children, the lowest form of villainy imaginable - and he does so, spiriting away to the predictably pathetic maternity care available on Alderaan. Medical droids? What the fuck would they know about pregnancy? The cute little robot said, "She's just lost the will to live." Well hell, then give her a Percocet, a Paxil, and slap her on the ass, cause yet another pregnant woman is depressed. No wonder Bail Organa's wife is childless. She'd probably poked her head into an Alderaan maternity ward and then immediately flew to Coruscant for a hysterectomy.

    Maybe Padmé's lungs were fried, her bloodstream beset with a witch's brew of inorganic compounds, or is it more likely that Master Yoda, suspiciously close at hand, was using his unnatural powers to solve a problem confronting his almighty Jedi Order? He sure didn't have a problem with keeping the babies without the consent of either parent now, did he? His new primary funding source, Bail Organa, got first pick, since money, power, and influence are always in strange agreement with Jedi decisions. So Senator Organa opted for the girl, raising her as a princess, filling her head with more Jedi lies, using her as a mule to run weapons and intelligence. The other of Anakin's precious children was dumped in the desert. I guess Master Yoda couldn't find a buyer. Watto must have retired to Corellia.

    Look at what these two Jedi masters did. Face it. Stare at it long and hard. Masters of deceit and treachery they are. They dismembered, disfigured, and burned Anakin. They brought agonizing death to Anakin's beloved. They stole his babies. In what court, what jurisdiction, can a pair of traitorous religious fanatics, ones who had just tried to decapitate the government, snatch up babies and pass them out to whomever they please, just because it suits their twisted purposes? Hell, Janet Reno would have them burned them alive. (Then again Janet Reno would've sent baby Luke back to Cuba.) "It's better for the kids," you say? The daughter was tortured, saw the planet where she grew up (grew up in ignorance thanks to Yoda) destroyed in front of her eyes, before she fell into the arms of a drug-running scumlord who smuggled in a ship he won in a poker game. The son grew up in abject poverty, saw his family's burning corpses, and had his armed hacked off by his own father, who he didn't even recognize thanks to Obi-Wan the bastard. Isn't it great how Jedi plans work out? Just so long as it serves the Jedi, just so long as we can all go to the theater and cheer and buy all the action figures.

    The Skywalkers all would have grown up as an intact and stable family, Padmé saved by the Dark Side powers of the duly elected Chancellor of the Republic, her children safe and protected, knowing the constant hugs of two very intact, powerful, and loving parents. The importance of such things don't fit into Jedi plans, since Jedi aren't allowed to have families. The only thing Jedi know about kids are how to snatch up promising youth for brain-washing as expendable pawns, their oozing baby fat the grease that keeps the Republic running in circles, keeps the graft flowing, keeps the Jedi in power.

    You may think this doesn't affect you, that it's all Sith bullshit. But every time some schmuck from Child Abductive Services pops in his favorite Star Wars DVD they're given a new impetus to go steal some more children. Subconsciously these abductive swine are spiriting Luke and Leia away from the evil emperor and Darth Vader, acting like Yoda, like Kenobi, like a Jedi, like a Nazi, stealing a pair of twins from their father because they don't agree with his politics.

    The Jedi and their ways must be stopped, and Anakin was more than right when he told Kenobi "From my perspective the Jedi are evil." They're evil from any rational perspective, too: child snatching vermin, traitorous assassins, knee-jerk religious fanatics. Their time must end.
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