If a bad guy breaks into my home..........

Discussion in 'Camp Wordforge' started by oldfella1962, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    ........he could probably do what he wanted if I have a pistol in my hand. :( I went to the shooting range with my son. How bad do I suck? Remember in Pulp Fiction when that kid jumped out and fired a bunch of rounds and all of them missed? That's pretty much my pistol shooting ability. :facepalm: I positioned the target at the bow hunting/archery "can't miss" distance but a pistol is not a bow and arrow. I can shoot an arrow at twice the range I had my target positioned and shoot a much tighter group. This is humiliating! I can't hit the inside of a barn with a flashlight beam! :lol: I can't hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle! :lol:
  2. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Two things should be reassuring:

    1. Even if you miss (a la the Seinfeld lookalike in Pulp Fiction), your intended target would be a fool to hang around. You might just get lucky and hit him.

    [​IMG]

    2. If your target doesn't leave, the closer he comes, the easier it will be to hit him. You may not hit the silhouette much at 7 yards, but at 1 or 2 yards, every shot is likely to find its way into him.
  3. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    By that time he could throw a shoe at me! BTW I never noticed that Seinfeld guy in Pulp Fiction. Maybe to get him motivated they told him to think about Newman!
  4. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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  5. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    Thanks for video taping my day at the shooting range! I can study it to see where my mistakes were made.
  6. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    In a reaction shot of Jules and Vincent, you can see the bullet holes in the wall behind them before the Seinfeld guy even fires at them. :lol:
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  7. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    Like in The Godfather - when Michael shoots the cop in the restaurant there's a bullet hole before he even shoots!
  8. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    So you're saying you really don't need a gun. Just keep the bow taut and nocked and within arm's reach. :?:
  9. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    Again you display your ignorance of firearm operation. I still need the gun - I just need a high capacity magazine. Wait, I have that, fifteen rounds worth matter of fact! Oops, make that thirty rounds, I can pop in a fresh magazine if I need to.
  10. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Thought you said you didn't own any guns? Reading all that :scary: stuff in the RR made you run out and buy some?
  11. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Garamet, this is not the place for trolling. Add to the discussion or be gone.
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  12. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    My son owns a gun. We shoot it together when he's home for weekends. If I hunted with a gun, I'd buy a gun for that purpose. If I ever do, it will be a muzzle loader.
  13. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    One reason I use a shotgun. Buckshot is very forgiving in the aiming department.
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    At reasonable self-defense distances, buckshot may as well be a single projectile.

    This is buckshot at 10 yards, much farther than a typical defense scenario. At closer range, it would be a single ragged hole.

    [​IMG]

    I used to think the same way. Now I realize that if you use a shotgun for home defense--unless you're very worried about over-penetration--you may as well use slugs.
  15. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    Oh indeed a shotgun is great home defense no doubt. But that pattern takes a bit of distance to "open up" so at a very close range (such as the width of a room) you can still miss. A lot of people have a false sense of security when it comes to the accuracy of a shotgun, plus they are hard to manuever with especially in a vehicle. Plus shotguns are insane loud indoors! My son's 9 has a not too punishing "pop" and not much recoil either. And that fifteen round magazine is nice too. The main thing is the 9 is just fun and cheap to shoot. This gun comes in .40 cal too. I prefer a revolver myself, but I am slowly warming to a modern semi auto pistol. Here it is, and a video of an expert shooting it.



    223900_01_lg.jpg
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  16. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    If buckshot hits lots of heavy objects inside a room you can get ricochet though.
  17. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    Negative! Unless your room was pure metal (like the inside of a submarine or something) most of the buckshot pellets would expend their energy in a generally straight line, perhaps veering off 30 degrees or so but only if whatever they hit was at a very slight angle, but losing energy very quickly regardless. Here's the problem with buckshot - it only works under very specific parameters. Too far, and the pattern gets so big only one or two pellets hit, and without much energy - light rounds (pellets in this case) lose energy faster than heavy rounds. Too close, and you miss the target completely. Buckshot works out to about 25 yards. That said a solid deer slug from that same shotgun would retain lethal energy out to 100 yards.
  18. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    The point is: at home defense range, there's no "spread" benefit to be gained from a shotgun. If you shoot at something 15 feet away, birdshot or buckshot is still going to be massed into something like a single projectile. You'll still have to aim to hit the target. Once you realize accuracy is still required--and realize that round pellets bleed energy quickly--you're better off using slugs, which deliver far more energy to target.

    Of course, slugs have some downsides: over-penetration and heavy recoil. But a solid hit from one will stop any threat in its tracks.

    I don't use a shotgun for home defense, personally. Too big and unwieldy. I go with a .45 ACP S&W M&P.
  19. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    There are two main reasons people choose shotguns for home defense weapons. 1 - that scary "chk-CHK" sound when you work the action (assuming it's a pump) and/or the generally overawing impression on someone of having a shotgun pointed at them, and 2 - buckshot or birdshot will not penetrate thru multiple walls and kill the neighbor's kid across the street. Unlike a standard bullet.
  20. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Could definitely be some psychological benefit to using a shotgun. The clack-clack of a pump action should make any reasonable intruder exit stage whichever-fucking-direction-there-is. And looking down the maw of a 12 gauge should give any prudent person pause to reflect on his imminent life choices.

    And you're quite right that shot has less tendency to over-penetrate. That's a plus and a minus. I myself would never use birdshot for defense unless there was no other option. Buckshot's a pretty good choice since the heavier pellets will penetrate more deeply.

    I read a write-up on the S&W Governor (.45 Colt/.410 shotgun shell revolver) in a gun magazine a while back that cast doubt on using the .410 shell--even with buckshot--for defense over the .45 Colt round the gun can also fire. Granted, a .410 is not a 12 gauge, but small shot is likely to cause a shallow (albeit ugly) wound, whereas a solid projectile penetrates deeply to damage critical organs and disrupt body function.
  21. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    Good point about unwieldy - and in a tight situation there is a chance somebody can grab that long barrel and take the gun from you or push the barrel in another direction when you fire. Will they burn their hand? Yes - I grabbed a shotgun barrel when it fired and it hurts. :( But not as much as getting shot, so there is that. And as I mentioned shotguns are helaciously loud indoors or inside a car or cab of a truck. :(
  22. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    I'll add to the discussion. Where I live, criminals are smarter. They wait until no one's home to break in. If you lock your doors and windows, leave at least one light on (and a radio is extra protection), and you have neighbors who look out for each other, you will not be broken into. Or, worst case scenario, you will not be home at the time, and your neighbors will report the local high school kids walking off with your TV.

    So the fantasy promoted by the home security people that there's a guy in a ninja mask lurking in your shrubbery - in the daytime - just waiting to attack the vulnerable female home owner and her underage daughter is, for the majority of Americans, exactly that...a fantasy.

    It's odd that the only "stats" that exist on these "a burglar broke into my house in broad daylight and threatened my daughter and me" scenarios are provided by the NRA and the home security companies that feed off this kind of terror.
  23. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    I'll add to the discussion. Where I live, criminals are smarter. They wait until no one's home to break in. If you lock your doors and windows, leave at least one light on (and a radio is extra protection), and you have neighbors who look out for each other, you will not be broken into.

    So that's a 100 percent money-back guarantee that you will not be broken into? :chris:BTW if your criminals are falling for the "leave one light on and a radio on" they must not be too smart. Regardless, in your paradise of a town nobody ever gets broken into by someone who wants someone to be at home, like a rapist, kidnapper, murderer, etc? It must be the safest city in the entire world including Japan and other almost crime-free locations. Well this is Camp Wordforge so I won't steer this into the wrong direction. So do you prefer pump or semi-auto shotguns? And on the shotgun subject, rifled deer slugs or actual rifled barrels?
  24. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    I think I said in another thread in the Red Room that the vast majority of home invasions here happen in poorer parts of town that have significantly higher crime rates compared to the rest of the area. I believe I also said that no one I personally know has ever had it happen to them (when their home or apartment was broken into, no one was at home so "burglary" instead of "robbery").

    That changed a couple of weeks ago.

    One of our reporters and his husband were held at gunpoint by a group of people who forced their way into their apartment and stole a bunch of stuff (mainly computers, tablets, and smart phones).

    You might say, "Well, he's well-known and that's why he was targeted", but I don't think that played much of a factor in it. He's on teevee, but he's not in a high profile position. He also doesn't live extravagantly (drives a modest car, lives in a nice, but affordable apartment complex, etc).

    Since the incident he's been freaked. Started carrying a pistol in his car and has it with him when he's going from his car to his apartment and vice versa. His husband is the same way.

    So it can happen, even to people who live in the "right" part of town.
  25. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    It makes sense to do a "home invasion" in a home where people might have something worth stealing, versus people who are as poor as you are. Also people in "nice" neighborhoods generally feel safe, and might let their guards down more.
  26. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    That's not how it works here.

    If you're poor and live in a shitty neighborhood, you're much more likely to be a victim than if you live in a less poor part of town.
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  27. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    I'm sure it works that way in most places. I said it would "make sense" to steal from the well off. But criminals aren't known for "making sense." :lol:
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  28. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Is barrel length not a factor?
  29. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I wouldn't think so, at least not as far as civilian-legal shotguns go. A military/police shotgun with a really short barrel may have a more open pattern, I don't know.

    Most defensive shotguns have barrels near the legal minimum length (18") and an open choke. That's going to give the maximum spread. A longer barrel and/or more restrictive choke would keep the shot even more tightly confined.
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