2024 General Election Thread

Really? Do you honestly believe any individual in the Democratic Party would continue to favor the same political issues you favor if they are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do otherwise?

Those people are lazy as hell and should try harder.

Even if I don't agree with you on a lot of things, I have to admit that some of the people disagreeing with you don't really put in the effort. They just treat their own opinions as self-evident and insult you for not agreeing with them. It's disappointing.

The "western values" of freedom of speech and democracy (how noble we are!) are fully enough subverted by actors within the system without Putin or anyone else getting involved.

I bet you felt like a real badass when you posted that. Here, I made you this:

I'm about to start work so no time to research the links, but I'm a little confused as to why the rebuttals to Rick's claim of the Democrats trying to keep Stein off a ballot are talking about her and not in fact rebutting the claim.

If nothing else, it's faulty debating logic.

Russian asset Jill Stein has a stated goal of trying to play spoiler to Harris and to elect Donald Trump.

Why shouldn’t Dems use all legal means to stop that?

That's the fun thing about dirty tricks, you can always claim you're not technically breaking any rules. Which is why decent people care about following the spirit of the law and not just the letter.

To paraphrase Justice Jackson: Democracy isn’t a suicide pact.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constitution_is_not_a_suicide_pact

This isn’t some kind of purity contest where you get points for ushering in fascism to prove you are open to other ideas about governing.

See that's it, if there are solid legal reasons that some of her attempts are invalid (like if she has commited fraud through submitting false signatures and the like) then citing that alone is a good enough rebuttal.

Rick made the claim that Dems were trying to keep her off the ballot which in and of itself is anti-democratic.

I disagree with that statement.

Do you agree with it?

No one is being paid nearly enough to tempt me to commit treason. How about you?

FBI arrests Afghan man who officials say planned Election Day attack in the US

Now keep in mind Rick like his fellow traveler Jill Stein is not operating here in good faith.

Like her he wants Trump to get elected, unlike her he has actually said it.

Even though he agrees Trump will be worse for the world than Biden (the nominee at the time) comparatively it would only be a small amount (how much worse could he be than ‘Genocide Joe’? And besides he’d let Russia have Ukraine).

However Trump would be MUCH worse domestically and Rick believes that Americans should suffer as we have made the world suffer (in his mind).

He celebrates foreign interference in our elections as payback for us interfering in others’ elections (according to him).

He wants an American civil war because it will distract us from the rest of the world and allow Russia and China to have regional hegemony.

So yeah. Fuck him and fuck his bad faith arguments. Not gonna play that game.

Jesus Christ, that's unhinged. I've said none of that.

Wait, are there solid legal reasons why he should be arrested for this, or do you people just hate democracy?

It started here:

http://wordforge.net/index.php?posts/3535098/

Yes I inferred some at the time but your denial was less than convincing:

http://wordforge.net/index.php?posts/3535145/

If they are trying to keep her off the ballot through shady tricks that I would condemn if the right did the same, 100% agree.

If they are trying to keep her off the ballot through legit flaws and legal actions to uphold the integrity of the electoral process then disagree with the statement.

However the amount of schadenfreude I would feel in the latter case has no bearing.

You’ll need to ask Rick what he’s referring to.

He made the claim that Dems were trying to keep her off the ballot which in and of itself is anti-democratic.

I’m just saying I disagree with that.

No, but I’m not a politician and my ‘vote’ isn’t any more important than any other of the 333 million people in the US (or the 160+/- registered voters), so there’s no reason for anyone to offer me hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If you are offered, and not tempted, good on you.

The items I’ve seen about keeping her (and RFK,Jr) off the ballot have consisted of objecting to things like the validity of signatures on the petitions to get her on the ballot and similar technicalities. Given that the Republicans are literally rewriting the election laws in Georgia so egregiously that the Republican governor is pursuing legal action to stop them, it’s hard for me to see why there’s concern about Stein being blocked in some states.

Additionally, neither her nor RFK, Jr. are on the ballot in enough states to win the EC, even if they were the top vote getters in the states where they are on the ballot. The best that they could hope for is that the election has to be decided in the House of Representatives, and if that happens, it goes to Trump.

Understand, if Trump wins, my life is immediately in danger because of my neighborhood. This isn’t some kind of abstract thing where I’ll be inconvenienced somehow. Motherfuckers will roll into my trailer park and start burning places because we’re all “illegals.” Even if Trump loses, that’s still a distinct possibility. So forgive me if I don’t seem too concerned that Stein’s being subjected to a little extra scrutiny.

This the post you're referring to?

Would you also disagree with this following statement:

Well, if it were me, I'd say that multiple groups backed by foreign powers that want to see our democracy fail and our country fall apart should be opposed with every legal method at our disposal.

And if fighting to make sure that the next election means something, opposing an overt fascist that talks about immigrants poisoning the blood of our nation and how he'll make sure our Christian dominionists never have to bother with voting again if he wins because he'll 'fix it' so they don't have to (his words) if you are so befuddled and deluded to think that makes you 'undemocratic', then you don't deserve to have that democracy anyway. As Franklin famously said, 'it's a Republic, madam... if you can keep it.'

And yes, that includes opposing candidates who meets with Putin, takes money from Putin, and vows to make sure Trump gets elected.

If there's a viable method of keeping that off the ballot, especially when she lies about the reason she's in the race and what her goals are, then of course you do so.

Because the guy whose own cabinet tells you is a threat to democracy and the Constitution, is unfit to hold office, and 'God help us' if he is elected, is the one who will win.

Again, that's only if you aren't a complete fucking idiot. Some people might want to go the idiot route.

But Russian agent Jill Stein isn’t an opponent for the presidency. She has admitted she can’t win and only wants to put Trump in the WH. That is a foreign backed ‘democratic’ spoiler not an opponent.

As for Trump I think that counter to our stolen Supreme Court the 14th Amendment should have been followed and he banned from the ballot. SCOTUS punted on whether or not he can become President only saying states couldn’t keep him off the ballot. If he does win in the EC I will support efforts to keep him from taking the presidency.

As to the general idea of spoilers if not moving to RCV or getting rid of partisan primaries I support doing what GA does with their races. Regular primary and general but if no one get’s 50%+1 then hold a head to head.

https://x.com/TheRickWilson/status/1838535302761115675

Ok, but the question was simply:

Uh. Sure, I guess. But as I said not relevant to our discussion.

It's a simple question. If everything is so obvious it should have a simple answer.

I said sure.

But even though in general poll watchers are a good thing for the democratic process SCOTUS has ruled that you can bar armed poll watchers even in Open Carry states.

I don’t think banning armed poll watchers is a slight against democratic process since they aren’t there to participate in the democratic process but to subvert it. Even though I think banning genuine poll watchers would be a slight.

Didn't interpret the sure as a response but as an acknowledgement the question had been asked, sorry!