Australian woman raped in UAE, spends 8 months in prison for "adultery"

Kill yourself you piece of shit. What part of "raped" do you not understand?

Simply for posting this opinion, you deserve to be raped by a pack of angry gorillas.

If I was the PM of Australia those ragheads would have got an ultimatum: She comes out or the SAS go in.

It might be worth noting that a short time ago, in Bangladesh, another rape victim, aged 14, was flogged to death by members of the same religion. That's how they roll. In muslim countries everywhere rape victims are routinely punished as criminals. In Iran rape victims get hanged.

I must say I never expected to see Chup, of all people, descending into the "She must have been a whore so she deserved it" line of reasoning. My guess is that it is blatant trolling, because I can't believe he actually thinks that.

Especially when you couple it with the "No one in the Red Room is as intelligent as I am and deserves my input in debate" line, I think it is pretty clearly trolling. He probably forgot he wasn't logged in with his Flashlight account...

^Maybe. It is definitely a strange tact to take, although it could very well be that the barely concealed, knee-jerk xenophobia that was so obvious in this thread was a bit much also....

Again, definitely a strange topic with which to demonstrate that disgust, so probably trolling, but if you're looking for some sort of genuine motivation, well there you go.

Damn you Ramen, you beat me to it. This is obviously a case of Chup focusing the rage from his failed relationship and cheating fiance on all women. +1 for you beating me to the diagnosis, +2 for you obviously having completed your official University of Phoenix online Doctorate in Psychology, like me.

No. His comment was classless, but that's the price for freedom, and we can all tell him how we feel though rep.

And El Chup, you can go fuck yourself and fuck the pity party about being "attacked" by the anti-Islam crowd for this, because both sides of the aisle can agree you've become a stupid twat. I would have expected this kind of crap from Ted. I had my doubts about you turning a blind eye to the extremes of Islam, but they're gone now.

What kneejerking? The only comment that even almost qualifies was Paladin's, and while I disagree with the sentiment of wymin having to hide because of what men may do...well, shit, with stories like this, who can blame him?

I'm also pretty sure that Rob posted this in large part because of the Australian consulate's part, and less because of Sharia Law in action, but he can speak on his own behalf.

Look, I'm glad the Red Room has become a bastion of women's rights (although, as you say, advocating hiding isn't really about rights, is it?). It should take on NOW, really.

The summary judgment that "If you're a Western woman, the very last place you should go is an Islamic country" was just imo bizarre. There are far worse places. Hmm, Democratic Republic of Congo anyone??

Have many people here ever even been to, let alone spent time, in an Islamic country? Or is it all through what we read in the media? Just wish people would speak a bit more from first-hand experience. Yes, this instance does not reflect well on the UAE. But you also have people in this thread, who have been to the UAE saying take it case by case, stay away from the generalizations...

I think Rob stated his reasons for posting this, which had something to do with UAE capitalist sentiments vs. Islamic whackjob conservatism. FWIW, I think he had a logical, sincere reason for posting; what I was saying is, what was the point when we know it's gonna go the "don't go to Islam!!" route anyhow, which it did.

I'd advise a woman to think twice about going to an Islamic country just as I would've advised a black person from going to Apartheid-era South Africa or a Jew to Germany under the Nuremberg Laws.

Don't go somewhere that the law considers you less than a full person.

Well, the now semantic distinction notwithstanding, that's not quite what you said then.

There are also clear examples of places worse for women -- for instance, as I mentioned the Democratic Republic of Congo, a Christian nation -- so....we don't always have to default to 'Islamic country is the very last place.' Maybe spread the discontent around a little....

Also, last time I checked, while yes Islam is repressive toward women.....I don't think women are being killed by the millions as the Jews were in Germany, in any Islamic country. Certainly not to the extent of what occurred vis a vis the Nuremberg Laws. So, another analogy failed.

So, pre August 1920's US for that matter then also, if you happen to be a woman?

See, this first half, I completely agree with. I agree with the majority opinion here that the law in the UAE is completely fucked up and wrong, but at the same time I recognize that travelling to a foreign country means accepting the laws of that country while you're there, regardless of how fucked up and wrong those laws might be. That's the risk you knowingly take on if you travel abroad. (Still, the Australian embassy deserves to get sued (if not burned to the ground) if they didn't even try to intervene on her behalf.)


But then you kept typing, and you went off on this tangent about sluts and alcoholic Australians, and you lost me.

The fuck?

You have no idea what you're talking about. I just spent several weeks in DRC (see my "Into the heart of Africa" thread in the Green Room for details and pics), and there is nothing like this that happens there. I'm guessing your information is ten years out of date, at least. Women can get raped there, like in any country, but they would not be sent to prison for it.

You should have cited North Korea if you want an example of a country where it is as dangerous for a Western woman to venture as an Islamic country. (And I, personally, distinguish "Islamic countries" from "countries where the vast majority of the people are Muslim." I have spent time in Senegal, too, and there are very few risks to Westerners there, women or otherwise, because the government and law are entirely independent of religion. I therefore call it a "Muslim" country rather than an "Islamic" one.)

I'd really like to know where you're getting your information?!?! You ask how much time people have spent in Islamic countries, so I will ask you the same question: How much time have you spent in the DRC?

Hmm, I think you may be incorrectly assuming what I was talking about in the first place. I wasn't referring to a woman being sent to jail. I am talking rape, which, while being sent to jail is yes, a terrible thing, being raped imo is much more serious to me.

Again, it is regrettable that the woman in question was sent to jail. But in the fight to liberate and guarantee equal rights for all, the world over, I am just more concerned about this. I would suspect that the woman in question also, given the choice of being raped or wrongful imprisonment, might choose the former.

The excessive and egregious rape of women that occurs in the DRC is to me the greater crime, and that's why I say, it's more dangerous for women in other places, than the ones we were discussing previously in this thread.

The good news is I'll never hire Chup as my lawyer

Rape is a problem throughout black Africa. It is much worse in South Africa than in DRC. Nevertheless, do you know what the chances are of a Western woman being raped in DRC? They vary from extremely slim to nonexistant.

Furthermore, the statistics from the end of the war are not all that relevent to the situation today. DRC today is a poor but peaceful country where there is little tension of any kind. Government corruption is rampant, but that's your biggest worry there as a foreigner. Not rape, armed robbery, kidnapping, murder, or anything like that. The war is over, kid.

I really don't think you ought to be talking about the DRC, until you know more of what is actually going on there.

A Western tourist, there for a short period of time like 3 weeks? Probably not likely.

But someone living in the same circumstances as the person in question in the UAE, living, working in the Congo? Likely a higher chance than that of being in the UAE. The economic disparity between UAE and DRC alone likely fosters a more hostile environment. So, still a greater threat to a Western woman.

Also, my guess is the probability of rape, for a Western woman, in the DRC vs UAE is about the same. If you have statistics otherwise, feel free to share. After all, one good, not substantiated statistical assertion deserves another.

Meh, is that a diminutive? If so, shove it, oldie. Yes with the war over, the numbers probably have dropped to some extent, given that it was a strange sort of warfare, but the fact remains, the culture which allowedthat still remains, and needs to be addressed. So the problem is hardly solved, as your post seems to be implying. This is, it seems, about cultural mindsets, after all.

Also, in turn, I'm much more likely to believe the word of someone who has spent time extensively studying the crisis in the Congo, than someone who spent a few weeks there. No offense, but you don't exactly have the higher academic credibility on this particular subject compared to the study author of the article cited.

Again, you're doing what, missionary work there? If you're working on rape of women in the DRC or black Africa, ok, but maybe it's best if you stick to the subjects that you know.
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My point here, again, was that there are worse places for women than Islamic countries in this world. I showed you an example, that is at least as bad for all women in that country (which arguably, the Australian woman, since she was living there and working there, could be considered 'part of' that country) and has the potential to be worse for just about any woman, Western or not, who happens to be there.

In terms of the matter in contention "the very last place for a Western woman," alternative examples have been provided.

I have probably spent a lot more time on the subject than you imagine, between my studies on the history and culture of the country, before and after the visit there, and my extensive discussions with people in the country, including fairly high-placed people, on that very subject. You think your internet source knows more about what is going on there than the people I met with involved in government, medical care, education, business, and other such aspects of the country?

What I do there is not really your business, but if you want fairly extensive details, read the Green Room thread.

You still are not coming across as someone who should be telling others what life is like in DRC. And you didn't answer the question that you asked of others about Islamic countries: How much time have you spent there, to know so much about the situation?

Or are they not supposed to talk about what they "know because they read it on internet" but you can?

Well it's not just an "Internet source", way to cast sourcing aspersions, it's a study in the American Journal of Public Health, conducted by folks were specifically examining the issue of rape in the Congo. I'd assume it's got to have at least passed some sort of peer-review process to be published.

If you have equal study of this particular subject, that's great. Maybe you can publish it as counterpoint in the AJPH as well.

Well, it really has nothing to do with any of that. People can make all sorts of assertions, whether experiential or not, so long as they provide some sort of evidence to back their assertions. I'm not at all assigning hierarchical positions of vacation destinations for Western women, but the sheer fact that such pandemic rape can occur in the DRC, and evidence linking to as such, does comparatively make it a place that is, or at the very least was at one time in the recent past much worse for women than the other places discussed in this thread.

Look, not trying to diss the DRC, if it is a place of which you are fond. But it has not been without its problems, and an honest assessment of where is and isn't safe for women, any woman, native or visitor, is important if we are throwing those types of assessments around.

^ But you would do better if you actually knew what you were talking about. You don't. It would have been much better to say, "Well, maybe my information on DRC is woefully incomplete, but there are places as bad for Western women as Islamic countries, if not worse." In that, you would have been correct.

But by digging in and trying to claim that the kind of abuses mentioned in this thread (which is not about rape per se, but about the fact that the women is suing the diplomatic mission for not warning her that filing a complaint for rape would simply get her in trouble, rather than the rapists--a situation that is decidedly not the case in DRC) are even more common in DRC than in Islamic countries, you have lost your credibility on what could have been a good point.

Well, I think the findings in the American Journal of Public Health know what they are talking about.

Nice try, but again, Async, your limited experience in the DRC does not qualify you to discredit the Journal's findings. Also interesting is that you haven't even offered any evidence of your own -- other than anecdotes from people you've talked to in the DRC -- but feel compelled to discredit the very real problem as described by the AJPH. Yes, it is my opinion that the rape of 1000 women per day is a bigger problem than the one mentioned in the original post in this thread. It is indeed an opinion on the circumstances.

But the existence of those circumstances comes from a research study. Also, even if those circumstances may have changed, the culture that led to still remains (cultural shifts don't happen so quickly), and that in and of itself, is something any woman, traveler or visitor, to that country needs to be aware of when present there.

In that respect, the potential dangers (just as the potential dangers in the UAE, since obviously not every Western woman visitor to the UAE has that experience), are relevant and do show there are more dangerous places than the one originally stated in this thread.

Can't you read? I'm not discrediting their findings. I have every reason to believe that their information is 100% accurate. I'm saying that 1) They are out of date because the war is over and 2) They do not apply to Western women there. Yet you are trying to ignore both those points as if they make no difference to the discussion. They do.

Whatever. I have addressed those remarks. I am also not staying up for the 4 hours of sleep I have left ahead of me for this. We'll have to continue this another time.

Wow. Normally I have some sympathy for El Chup's efforts to give a more rounded view of the Islamic world to those who post retarded images of "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11" and their ilk, but this is just...insane.

Fuck.

^ I would give you about 100 reps for that if I could. I share that sentiment exactly.

But why even go on a trip where you have to walk on eggshells in the first place? And, knowing if you run into trouble the entire nation is against you?

Good point about the difference between a Muslim and Islamic country.
I know a guy from Senegal, and he's very tolerant and easy-going and respectful to women. From what he tells us they don't have the "Islam trumps common sense" attitude. He practices his religion in a non-obtrusive manner as faithfully as he can considering he's in the Army and has to adapt to their schedule. He had no problem with "killing Muslim babies" like a few freakazoid Muslims in the Army went batshit deadly crazy about.

Regardless, I have kids, and having been around the world I know where I would and would not want them to visit. The Sandbox is a definite FUBAR, period.

Some laws are unjust and indefensible, to be beaten back regardless of national borders.

What is this insistence to try to defend Islam or the UAE by saying something along the lines of "yeah, well, these other people do such-and-such." That doesn't change what happened here or how anyone feels about it.

And why the outrage of the idea that people should avoid going to a place where they might easily run afoul of an oppressive system of law? A woman got sent to jail because she reported getting raped and the scum that did it got off completely free. And hell, that's practically progressive in the Middle East - there are other countries there where they would've stoned her to death or hanged her. And you're upset by the notion someone would suggest avoiding such places?

It's the same mentality as surrendering neighborhoods to muggers and crack heads. At some point, you have to stop letting the lowest of human filth dictate your movements.

Though in this case the fix might look like a giant bowl made out of radioactive glass.

I'm sure there are plenty of illegal immigrants that agree with you.

Nope. Too far. I agree with you about some of America's (and Canada's) immigration laws, but equating them to imprisoning a woman for being raped is not even remotely credible.