Memphis City Voted Along Racial Lines - Police

I'm interested in this bit of dismissing what somebody else posts by simply claiming "word games". Would you mind elaborating on how this phrase is a legitimate substitute for actual discourse? Or somehow a definitive reply?

No it is a legal intoxicant much stronger than many illegal drugs. A fair description for caffeine and nicotine as well.

You've enough trouble representing yourself don't bother trying to represent my thoughts.

That can't be, it's legal.

In most counties.

Exactly.

Thanks for finding the words to express it.

I'm sure that cops intellectually know this, generally speaking.

I do think the possibility exists that some emotionally forget it and develop "us vs. them" mentalities.

No, that's not what I was saying. I was replying to the point you raised that "There is no benefit to any other city."

There is a benefit to the neighbors of a cop, regardless of what city the cop works for.

Which contradicts your assertion that there is no benefit to other cities. If offduty police can react in emergency situations, then other cities can benefit from having offduty police from other cities in them.

So what? Who cares?

You act as if the neighbor is stealing from the city the cop works in.

No it doesn't. Off duty cops are not on call. To act in an off-duty capacity something has to happen while they officer is there.

An off duty cop is not going to respond to a bank robbery call. However should he be in the bank getting robbed then that's a different story.

I notice they still have not noticed Shoes point that they can only hire police who live in a specific county of Memphis. But they will be patrolling the other sections I bet.

So tell me, if they have to live in that specific county how can they have real ties to the community outside of that county, that they will invariably be patroling?

Or are those who live in that specific county only going to be patrolling that county and the rest of Memphis will be fucked?

It does not seem to be that all of Memphis is contained in this area, and that the surrounding areas are not suburbs, but Memphis itself. So how are they patrolled and why can't the police live in those areas?

Not really. I'm just saying that it contradicts your assertion that there's no benefit to the other location a cop might live in. It's fine by me and to be expected that neighbors benefit from having a cop around.

No it doesn't. Off duty cops are not on call. To act in an off-duty capacity something has to happen while they officer is there.

An off duty cop is not going to respond to a bank robbery call. However should he be in the bank getting robbed then that's a different story.[/QUOTE]

We seem to be saying the same thing here basically, perhaps from two different angles.

Offduty police are going to from time to time come upon emergency situations, right? Whether they happen on a traffic accident, are in a bank being robbed, see a fight breaking out or whatever.

That is going to lead to situations in which those off-duty officers are going to act.

If those officers happen to live in other cities, they will spend a lot of their off-duty time in those other cities.

If those off-duty officers living in another city run into such a situation, they will react.

If they react, the other city is getting a benefit.

This contradicts the notion you originally put forth that there's no benefit to another city from off-duty officers from another jurisdiction living there.

It's reasonable to think that such a thing is rare, even to the point of being minimal. But it's not really reasonable to think that there would be no benefit whatsoever if you agree that off-duty cops from other jurisidictions can act as cops.

In a general sense, a lot of these arguments are kind of moot IMHO. Broadening the residency restriction is not intended to be an ideal solution. Being able to staff the MPD from within the current residency restriction would be ideal...but that's not happening. If the ideal solution is unattainable, then what's left? Is having police who live outside the county worse than not having near enough police in the first place?

I would tend to agree, but not knowing anything about the geography and culture and history of Memphis or Shelby County.

Some counties are essentially geographically the same or similar boundaries as the city, such as the City and County of San Francisco.

Other counties are pretty well dominated by a city, like Cook County is dominated by Chicago.

In either of those sorts of situations, I could see it being a reasonable line drawing to include the entire county.

I could see an argument that a city wouldn't want someone to have to travel beyond 2 hours to get home after a shift as a cop also.

I guess the question is why the ideal situation is unattainable. If it's that people are moving across state lines for better money or avoiding crime or whatever reason, getting rid of the residency requirement isn't really going to change that.

Another question is how much recruiting the police department has done and what resistance it's reported in its efforts. If the police department and the police officers association say that residency is a big obstacle, then IMO, they should get rid of it.

2 hours? We're talking half an hour.

That's what I've been trying to say...

I guess Memphis is kind of unique with regards to "community". Shelby County is dominated by Memphis, just as the Northern part of Desoto County, Mississippi is. Memphis is right smack dab in the crotch of the Tennessee/Arkansas/Mississippi boarders. Northern Miss and Western Arkansas are WITHIN the Memphis Metropolitan Area. They are all tied together. The only difference is that some people's taxes go to different state capitals...that's pretty much it. I would be willing to bet that close to half of the people who live in Olive Branch, MS work within the Memphis city limits...same for West Memphis, AR. We all live and work in the same geographical area. This coupled with the fact that the city of Memphis its self is so culturally, racially, and economically segregated anyway means that the Memphis metro area is no less a "community" than the city of Memphis its self is a "community".

I'm not sure why it's unattainable. There are a lot of people moving to North Mississippi because of crime and better schools. What exactly do you mean that changing the residency requirement isn't going to change that? Change what? If you mean, that it isn't going to get people to start moving back to Memphis, then you may well be right....at least in the short run.

They have done a shit ton of recruiting for years now....and not only does the police department and the Police officer's association say that residency is a big obstacle...so do both the city and county mayors.

Memphis is traditionally the Capitol of the "Mid-South."

I may be completely wrong here, but I am under the impression that one can't be a police officer for a city in one state and live in another state. I admit that I'm not basing it on anything concrete. On a gut feeling that seems wrong.

I am so glad I live in Nashville and not Memphis. It's soooo much nicer here.

I think that depends on the city. We've got other city workers who live in Mississippi and work in Memphis...why not the Po-Po?

Tennessee POST certification requires that you actually live within the state.

Really? I had no idea. I'm not as informed about all this as I thought I was. I thought the people were hoping to get some Memphis ex-pats in Mississippi with this.

Yeah...uh.

Nevermind then.

I've been looking for this pre-requisite, but I can't find it. I'm looking here.

I see where it says that you have to be citizen of the United States, but not Tennessee. Am I missing something?

After checking, I can no longer find the residency requirement in the certification requirements.

I don't live in the jurisdiction which I serve, hell, at one point I didn't even live in the same county. Two things encouraged me to move away.

The first, I had worked a Thursday night and I'd gotten in a bad, bad knock down drag-out fight. The guy we arrested took it very personally and made some threats.

I was off the next night and I was hosting a dinner party. I had to run down to the grocery store for something at the last minute and guess who I wound up behind in line. Yup. You guessed it, and I had nothing on me but a pair of car keys (I was young and dumb). Thankfully, he never turned around.

Second, I was working one night and I arrested a guy and his car on DUI. The next night, I was off and he called me at home wanting to know how to get his car.

Those two things told me that I needed to move.

Now. Are you prepared to argue that I don't have a vested interest in cleaning up the streets?

Elwood kill it?

Um... Do they even have streets in Alabama?


I think that things like this depend on population density and incidence/prevalence of crime. In high crime areas within an urban setting, yes, a cop should live in the city which they serve. Like Raoul said, in a high crime urban setting, it's common to grow a sense of cynicism when it comes to the inhabitants of a city. We see it here of WF everyday. Look at the disparaging remark made about Chicago and NYC made by people who have no clue about city life... in this very thread even. There is no way that someone with that attitude should be given a badge and a gun and let loose in these cities.

I kid you not... When I lived in Chicago, for a while I worked in Gary, IN... at a time when Gary had a higher murder per capita rate of both Chicago and NYC combined. The residents of Gary had the gall to tell me that Chicago was way more dangerous than Gary regardless of the statistics to the contrary. It was the prevelantly held belief. We are talking about a city that's only 15-20 miles away from Chicago city limits. I'm sure there are good cops there, but I would feel a lot more comfortable with a cop that had no such prejudices.

I know that AL has some urban areas, but I don't know what they are like and where it is you serve. I'm sure that you are the kind of person that can handle the stress of a job like an urban cop and still maintain good judgement.

Lemme axe you this, then: Should a cop live in the same area or district within the city where he works, or can he live where he wants as long as it's within the city limits?

I ask because a police friend of mine who lives near me just got promoted to Lieutenant. As a result of the promotion, he'll be working out of a different substation than the one where he's worked since he became a cop ten years ago.

Does he have to sell his house in the nice part of town where we live and move his family fifteen miles away to the shitty part of town where his new assignment is going to be?

Remember: It's all still the same "city", just a different (much different) part of town.

The city is the city.

Good answer.

Could? Yes. Want to? No.

Frankly, small agencies are eat slap up with small town politics. But, it's more "fun." It's a fact that small agencies come across more crimes actually in progress than large agencies. Believe it or not, it's a faster pace in small agencies. The guys I know that work for Birmingham PD and Montgomery PD are glorified report takers. They show up after the fact, sometimes long after the fact. We're often there as the guy comes out of the store/house/bar.

For instance, several weeks ago, we had a silent alarm go off at a liquor store in the bad part of town. The first officer arrived on scene 52 seconds after the dispatch order. He saved the clerks life.

Of course, it also means help is closer too. After the famous North Hollywood Bank Robbery became a case study for law enforcement agencies across the nation, the LAPD started issuing surplus M16's with the selector switch removed to it's Sergeants and Lieutenants.

The problem with that, versus giving one to every officer or letting them buy their own is one of time. In a large urban environment, it might take 30+ minutes for a supervisor to arrive on scene (as happened in that shootout). Here, if a Shift's Lt. is standing inside his office at HQ, he can be anywhere within our jurisdiction (~70,000 people) in less than seven minutes running code.

Have you ever been to the Memphis area?

Why'd they remove the selector switch?

My guess would be to make sure it was semi-auto only since they did receive the weapons from the US military.