Remind Me Again How We’re Supposed to Feel About This

then I salute their efforts! But if they don't do it from a platform of the US being the greatest country and they want to make it even greater (without destroying what is great about it and it's uniqueness) then it would behoove them to leave. Just my 2 cents!

it will never happen and you know it.

I do. But what if it did?

So Trump and the GOP are full of shit on that point?

Might wanna have a word with the gun lobby, tell 'em it's all a big lie.

Trump has succeeded in packing all of the Federal courts with conservative judges. It won't happen for another generation or two.

About the only time I've drawn comfort from the Deep South having a generation interval of eight years...

That's the part I don't get. I could care less how their country operates so long as they don't try and interfere with mine. Stay out of my business, I'll stay out of yours. Simple.

And again, seeing an egghead trying to lecture ex-military about toughness is ......priceless.


MATTHUNTER

I never thought about it. It's kind of like wondering where the universe ends - you just can't wrap your mind around it.

Seeing TR trying to lecture anyone about courage OR intellect?

Man, you make Elmer look like Einstein and Spartacus rolled up and slathered with mustard.

that said, if you live in the US and are a citizen (or at least trying to become one) and vote (unless denied the right to vote which I disagree with BTW) and sincerely want to change things in a non-violent manner, go for it! But if you don't live here you can share your opinion all you want, but don't expect me to value it.

There now, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Only a few posts into the thread and I've achieved political change in America without having to rig Facebook ads or hack the DNC!

I forgot one thing - if you are an honorably discharged military veteran I value your opinion more (no matter how much I disagree with it) because you earned that right.
Okay if you pull some Timothy McVie shit all bets are off of course.

Feeling proud doesn't preclude trying to change it. As several have mentioned the "love it or leave it" attitude isn't workable. Suppose the entire billion and change people in China decided they didn't want to stay, would @oldfella1962 be willing to support dispersing a good 1/6th of the human race crossing the globe as migrants?

The OP is absolutely correct, there is indeed a bias. People will jump on an example of a failed socialist state as being symptomatic of the system, but minimise (as you are doing) the equal or worse failings of a capitalist one.

Venezuala is a failed state to serve as an example to the rest of us of the evils of collectivism, Ecuador has problems but "so does everyone".

The simple fact is you are right, every country has problems, the US has problems, the UK has problems, China has problems, Ecuador has problems, Vietnam has problems, Bolivia has problems, Iraq has problems. We can't all just up sticks every time we acknowledge those problems are real rather than blindly cheering for a flag and pretending all is hunky dory.

Patriotism isn't believing your country is superior no matter what, it's believing your country is worth working for and putting the effort into. It's like a marriage, not a one night stand. You don't just walk away the moment you have a disagreement, you work to fix those problems until it becomes clear that's unhealthy and you really have to walk away. Even there you still have a lot of shared baggage that can only be ignored via wilful ignorance.

Why?

Why would a military veteran have any more insight into the workings of the world than a doctor, or a politician, or a shopkeeper, or a drug addict, or an immigrant who has lived in a cage, or an academic?

What value does having been in a warzone lend to someones' insights into peacetime political process? What about someone who was a civilian living in that warzone and experiencing the consequences in a way no soldier could?

Service guarantees citizenship.

extreme right: wants to kill people for being different, create a new feudalism
extreme left: wants to stop the extreme right.

yeah... fuck off, clownshoes

The extreme left results in communist dictatorships, numb nuts.

Actually it's a perversion of them. Communism on paper is supposed to have no leader except to set things up, but no one wants to lose that job.

First this: "Suppose the entire billion and change people in China decided they didn't want to stay, would @@oldfella1962 be willing to support dispersing a good 1/6th of the human race crossing the globe as migrants?" - spot261 why would I have to worry? Obviously they would head to welcoming, tolerant, gun free, crime free England first!

Secondly: I never claimed a military veteran has any more insight. But they served and defended the nation to the highest degree, thus they indeed had "skin in the game" and that means a lot to me and many other vets too. They were on the business end of the political process when it doesn't work as advertised. When the theory meets reality so to speak. They "walked the walked" so if they of all people don't deserve to be heard then who does? An academic? A hefty percentage of them can talk a good game, but are full of shit with no common sense to speak of.

BTW I never said shit about being in a warzone - that's a moot point. You go where your unit goes, and you normally can't just switch units. It's very much the luck of the draw on a combat deployment.
But just training, serving and staying combat ready (not an option) means they are in position and willing to go where they are sent when they are sent.

"A hefty percentage of them can talk a good game, but are full of shit with no common sense to speak of."
applies to everyone, and as evidenced around here, including former members of the armed services.


"You go where your unit goes, and you normally can't just switch units.... But just training, serving and staying combat ready (not an option) means they are in position and willing to go where they are sent when they are sent. "
Case in point... your job is different, but other than less portability, I'm not seeing much else.
And shit, unless you're a total fuck up, you've got better security, benefits, and reclasssification than the Ontario Teachers Federation.

Really?

That's what you say here and then say immigrats deserve what they get when we treat them like ass?

Got nothing serious? That's where your love it or leave it attitude goes, vast movements of people across the globe.

Clearly it's silly and ignorant.

Bollocks.

Utter bollocks.

We all have "skin in the game", that's the point. We all live and die in the world being shaped by political decisions and I posit that civilians living through conflicts have far more insight into the effects of war on society than those firing the bullets.

Being or having been in the military means nothing where it comes to the value of your opinion or your ability to assess the world. Far from it, it speaks of your ability to follow orders without speaking up against them, which in the world of policy making is a bad trait.

Wind it back, only a few lines back it was about skin in the game, now it's about....what? Being willing to do your job? Take risks for your paycheck? We all do that.

guess the teachers should have chosen different careers! Seriously though I feel teachers should be paid more, but I don't run the show.

I see you crossed out the "combat" on being combat ready. I don't know how your military works but there are no career "desk jockeys" in the military.
Your job may entail being behind a desk most of the time, but you still have to make weight, pass the PT test, qualify with your assigned weapon, etc. and all bets are off on your desk position when the shit hits the fan.

I like that scene in Saving Private Ryan where the clerk has to put down the typewriter and tote a rifle!
"You have fired a weapon before in boot camp, right?" Things can flip pretty fast on your day-to-day tasks that's for sure!

umm...no.
the combat is crossed out because being ready to go is a requirement for any occupation.
likewise, the OTF is generally considered one of the most powerful/well bankrolled unions in the country.

I cna never tell when you're having me on from when you're just to slow witted to interpret what's been said? Which I suppose supports my point about the truly mediocre being secure in a public service...

It's a nice idea, but in reality the quartermaster at Bragg or Ft. Worth isn't gonna suddenly find his ass in the desert under enemy fire, unless the General catches him fucking his wife.

What if we don't want to change to the garbage they want? What if we want to change it further away from the garbage they want?

Bring it.

You're on the wrong side of history, mate.

Oh, there might be the occasional backslide, like now. But all folk like Trump do is serve to remind us just how fucking horrific what YOU want is.

Whereas we want, oh let's see, equal rights, better education, better healthcare, restrictions on the ability of big business to fuck over society...

Terrible.

So your Bible tells you gays are evil. And society says you can't treat 'em differently any more.

So fucking what?

That guy you just sold the cake to? Could be a fucking paedophile.

The loving couple holding hands you just DIDN'T sell the cake to because they both have the same genitals?

Could have adopted and given a safe environment to one of his victims.

Your days of pretending your 2000-year old version of Harry Potter and the Money-Lenders In The Temple gives you any claim to being "the good guys" are over.

Because oldfellah is a fascist and believes a military state where the people live under the boots of the military is better than freedom. Plus, he does not have much else going for him aside from the low bar of getting into the military and serving.

Your "good guys" want to murder unborn children, have government control a person's religious beliefs, take people's ability to protect themselves and only rely on the government.

Let government be in control of your healthcare instead of you, only say, think and do things the government approves of. Etc.

That is garbage that is quite harmful to many and that harm is celebrated. That is shameful.

A zygote isn't a person.

umm... proof? not letting you have a theocracy doesn't count

if you can't "protect" yourself without resorting to lethal force, you aren't competent to have that option

Because everyone needs a private sector middle man who's entire purpose is to deny payment for healthcare

what the fuck are you on about here?

Change comes from within, you should get on it.