So as not to piss off Shooter and Forbin ...

Gun nuts. Whatcha gonna do?

Meanwhile, are you still willing to argue that 22-year-old Monica Lewinsky was just an innocent child when she had sex with Bill Clinton?

Yes. I also believe your continued bullshit is bullying. Perhaps you should check out John Oliver’s episode on media bullying.

Reminding you of your previously held opinion is "bullying"? I'll keep that in mind.

See, an adult would post something to the effect of "I've had reason to rethink my position."

No? Hokay.

But I haven’t changed my opinion. I still think a 22 year old is too young to know the full extent of life altering decisions.
but you continue to revile a child for having a crush and acting on that crush when the crush appeared to reciprocate those feelings.

I am not reviling the "child." I am questioning your perspective. By the time my daughter was 22, she was able to make adult decisions. Maybe if Monica had had a female role model, things might have been different. But given her past history, I'm dubious.

This is going to result in another spinoff thread; I can just tell.

Doesn’t matter how mature a person is. It’s about perspective. At 22 no on can adequately put one incident into a lifetime perspective. Yet at 52, a man should know the full repercussions of his actions.

You seem to believe I'm letting Bubba off the hook. I'm not. I'm saying it says two to tango. When I was 22, I thought about the ramifications before I did anything.

How long do you want to pursue this?

Die in a fire.
He IS innocent of murder. There was a whole trial and everything, which you refused to study. Please don't turn the fun meme thread into yet another rerun of that shit.

You started it. You can end it.
but my stance has always been that Monica was as much a victim as any other woman her age caught in a situation beyond her control and the man manages to get off Scott free.
You’re changing your story now. Don’t worry, I’ve no interest in doing the Tamar thing and combing Trekbbs archives to dig up your posts, but that is, was, and always has been your argument. That Monica was the villain who attempted to bring down your previous Clinton.

I think you meant to say "precious." Anyone here knows I never voted for, nor defended, Bill Clinton. But if you believe a 22-year-old with a track record of searching for a Daddy figure is an innocent child, then I can't persuade you otherwise.

I think you're just annoyed that I remember.

Now, keep it going so that a mod can pull it out of the meme thread.

This is at least the second time you've done this. You really need to learn to leave that first "s" out of the "rolleyes" smiley.

It's : rolleyes :

When you leave out the spaces, that gives you:

When I was 18, 20 and 21 years old, I made some decisions that completely altered the course of my entire life. I thought about them very carefully before making them, and have never regretted them.

But thank you for telling me, now, that I didn't know what I was doing because I was too young.

Now there's a broad brush!

... and not to gum up the meme thread – which apparently I’m the only one called on it despite the fact that I was responding to others … - happy @ Asyncritus?

Why would I be annoyed? I remember it well. Apparently, better than you because you did, in fact, defend Clinton.


And yes, of course I meant “precious”. I was drunk posting on a phone.


The fact that you continue to degrade her 20 years later is the bullying of which I was speaking. “a track record of searching for a daddy figure” is the kind of woman-shaming that I would think a woman of your political views would be against.


But, I’ve overestimated your ability to emphasize before, so …

If you think that post was somehow about you, let me relieve you of that misconception. I was speaking in general terms here and an overall human experience.


I was not saying every decision ever made by every 18 – 25 year old is incorrect or would lead to infamy. I’m just saying the full scope of any decision made by an 18 – 25 year old is not always taken into account.


You’re a smart guy. I think you know this. What I don’t understand is why you’re making this into something that it’s not.

See above response

Yes. It is. It’s a very broad, general statement. It follows the 80/20 rule.

A 22 year old intern should have been sent packing if she came on to the pres. The pres should have known better. Either way Clinton (or his staff) should have transferred her to another area.

Back then we just chuckled. We were the assholes.

Then it was incorrectly stated. You wrote "no one", not "relatively few". You made it universal.

And I personally would hotly contest that "80/20 rule" in this case, for three reasons:

1) It's not that people at 22 cannot do it, but too often do not do it. That is a very different thing.

2) If it is "do not" instead of "cannot", then it is no excuse whatsoever for those who do not.

3) I work with a lot of young people, on a national level here in France. In my experience, a lot more than 20% are capable of thinking through the implications of their decisions and acting responsibly.

Fine. It's incorrectly stated. Why is this a hill for you to die on? it's not for me, so I will concede. You are correct.

Agreed. We laughed at a gross imbalance of power and chalked it up as just being one of those things. That was the kind of dismissiveness that still enables bad behavior from men in powerful positions.

/thread

I mean, we all now agree this was a huge abuse of power and that Bill Clinton should gotten at least the same amount of scrutiny and she did (impeachment trial aside, which as the right is fond of reminding us, wasn't about the beej at all)?

If trials are a magic gools forcefield, then what's your position on the LA riots?

No, I did not.

I’m sorry, you can NOT be talking about human beings. There’s not a one of ‘em with that capacity.

Conservatism, the politics of despair!
Catch the fever!
Extreme!

A jury found him INNOCENT don't you see! INNOCENT!!!

There's a Trump 2020 bumper sticker if I ever saw one.

He's in France, not the US... way more than plausible.

The average European is better educated than the average American...
They are also more open and curious about the world in general...
Though i've met plenty of ignorant people of different ages in the past 20 years...

For clarification, my statement was not that I believe 80% of the population is ignorant. Rather, 80% of the population make 80% of their decisions impulsively. While standing in a checkout line and suddenly deciding to buy a candy bar. If you've already had six that day, it might be an ignorant decision, but if you hadn't had one in six months, it's no big deal.

No one carefully measures every decision based on how it will affect the country or the global community. Most decisions are based on right here, right now, and whether or not I'm hungry.

Monica was, obviously, mature enough to be placed in a position in which she had direct access to the president of the United States - arguably the most powerful man in the world at the time. He was also .. considered by many to be charismatic and attractive. Monica, even at 22, was probably just as subjected to her young desires as much as any person at her age. Would every person in her position made the same decision? no, of course not. But, not every person in my position made the same decisions I have made.

People make mistakes. Fuck anyone who would choose to continually insult a woman for an unfortunate decision she made - at any age. Let alone at 22.

Also, fuck anyone who would insult that woman but not the 50+ year old man who took advantage.

story starts around 12:00

The Monica thing could've gone one of two ways: she fucked the guy and kept her job or she didn't and spoke out what a creep he was and get treated like Tara Reade.

Either way, she was fucked.

Doesn't matter if she was 18 or 88, Clinton should've behaved more professionally and deserved far more flack than he caught. He was the one with accountability to the country.