US-Russia Missile Talks Come To Naught

MOSCOW - Russian President Vladimir Putin warned President Bush's top two Cabinet officials on Friday to back off U.S. missile defense plans for eastern Europe as high-level talks yielded little more than a pledge to meet again.

Despite presenting new cooperation proposals intended to bring Moscow on board, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates failed in a series of tough meetings to turn around Moscow's opposition to the system and other strategic issues.

Putin set the tone early on when he hosted Rice and Gates and their Russian counterparts at his country home outside Moscow and delivered a stern rebuff to U.S. plans to push ahead with establishing missile defense facilities in Poland and the Czech Republic.

In combative comments that took the U.S. side aback during a photo session, Putin criticized Bush's pet project and threatened to pull out of a Cold War-era treaty that limits intermediate-range missiles.

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Just gets better and better for the State Department, doesn't it?

Why should the Russians care if we deploy ABMs or not?

After sixty years, they should know we aren't going to attack them.

I think the problem is a perception of American aggressiveness coupled with a Russian inferiority complex.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians want to be a superpower again and start to assert themselves more...if only because they can.

I still think it should boil down to Poland and the Czech Republic. If they want them, put them there. If they don't, no.

Putin is right. Like a broken clock, I suppose.

But they can't, outside of nuclear weapons. Their Army is in shambles and their Navy couldn't surge if it had to. I hear their Air Force is in the best shape out of the bunch, but they don't have much. Of course, they could flex their economic might...oh...wait.

Fuck Putin.

Someone who seems to be doing to damnedest to make sure that no one can stop the crazy towlies in Iran from getting nukes shouldn't keep his neighbors from asking for foreign help for a defense system in case said Islamocrazies ever try to fire off a few missiles into Eurabia.

No it's not.

It can't possibly deflect the ICBMs the Russians are fielding, and any launch from Iran at Europe would come right near Poland and the Czech Republic.

Russia's a whiner and you're a tool. Big surprise.

Either Poland and Czech Republic are free of the shackles of the 20th century or they're not.

Can't exactly expect them to have the mindset of the part of Europe that has been free since WWII when they can still feel Russia's hot breath on their neck. They should coat the missiles with binaca

I worked with the Polish Air Force a couple of times. They fly old school MIGS and whatnot, but they were in good shape.
They use AK-47 and I got to shoot one - I could get used to that!

We had cookouts with them and they made us potato pancakes, sausages and locally brewed beer! They told us to drink the beer fast, or it would go bad. I had a few sitting around in my wall-locker at the office I had forgot about a month after we got back to Germany. I drank one and
WHOA that shit was rancid!

Putin's full of shit. The ABM system in no way negates Russia's nuclear arsenal (until we build several thousand interceptors, that is), it just sends a message to Iran: even if you build missiles, you won't be able to blackmail us or Europe with them.

Let the Europeans develop their own missile defense system. They should be able to get it through the various EU commissions by 2376.

I think a couple of things drives this.

First.

1) If ABMs can intercept 10 missiles, then an expanded system could intercept 1000. It is just a matter of scale. If a small system proves highly successful then a larger one can as well.

2) Putin knows that one way or another the Russian nuclear arsenal is going to fade away unless their economy improves dramatically. I read in Foreign Affairs that within 10 years some 30% of Russian nuclear weapons will become operationally unreliable due to age.

Foreign Affairs also noted that right now the U.S. could take out almost all of the Russian arsenal with a first strike thanks to huge gaps in the Russian radar coverage.

^It's not a matter of hitting the missiles, we can do that already. It's the multiple warheads, and the fake warheads.

Becomes too expensive.

Much easier to hit them during the boost phase, no?

Where would be a good spot to put a system that could destroy Russia's land-based ICBMs during their boost phase?

In orbit.

No doubt. But to intercept 1000, you've probably got to have 2000 interceptors, and they ain't cheap. The Russians would have YEARS of warning before that many interceptors could be fielded.

True. And then much of Russia's remaining influence in Europe and Asia dwindles. The only thing they've got going for themselves now is oil.

Putin probably realizes that Russia is fucked no matter what. If he lets the ABM go forward, Russia looks weak. If he reacts rashly to it, he'll drive capital from his country and the economy will get worse.

My guess? Ivan's going to bend over and take it.

I wouldn't doubt it. But we don't really have a reason to.

If the system isn't aimed at Russia, why doesn't Shrub take up their offer to use Azerbaijan instead?

Stationing one of our most advanced systems inside former U.S.S.R. territory seems a little unsound given the recent posturings of the Russian President.

I'd say: why doesn't Putin take up the offer to allow Russian personnel at the Czech and Polish sites?

I pretty much agree with that assessment.

But again, even if it's as worthless a system as Dan says, it's still upon Poland and the Czech Republic to make a decision, not England Dan (or John Ford Coley for that matter), about what goes on within the borders of their national sovereignty. If they want them, they should have them. Anyone who doesn't like it...well that's what NATO is for

When you demonstrate a rudimentary knowledge of this topic, then you can speak.

Until then, shut your stupid, fucking craw.

Of course I have.

Look at what our Patriot system did during the Gulf War! That was just theater defense, but with the proper funding, we should have a strategic asset to counter singular ICBMs from despots and the like. And the Russians still have theirs. Upgraded and uprated, so they obviously believe it's good for something.

But I digress. Marathon is right, and honestly, I'd rather not spend my money protecting Europe at all. We should aim on constructing this system in Japan for our own protection.

Exactly. If it doesn't work now, then it'll never work and we should obviously quit trying.

Any idea or experiment that doesn't succeed on the first attempt should be abandoned forever