Star Trek Discovery. [SPOILERS WITHIN]

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by Diacanu, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Way to ignore my actual point, dumbass.
    If Chuck Norris gets cowboy-magic, the girls get cowboy-magic.
    If not, then nobody gets cowboy-magic.
    But get ready for the good guys to lose more fights, and for fiction to look like the sad third act of "Last Action Hero".
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  2. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    Accepting everything you say here as true:
    1. The existence of rare outliers implied by the above could mean that any given female protagonist/antagonist could be one of the outliers.
    2. The training/life experience/desperation/luck of the character could do a lot to mitigate the advantage that men might otherwise have over her
    3.That what you say is true for 2023 humans in the real world does not necessarily mean that it will always will be true in fictional ones. In the Trek Universe, there have been numerous advances in tech, cross-breeding with other species, improved diet, cultural changes that could potentially serve to even the playing field between men and women in hand-to-hand. In the Star Wars universe, the Force makes a Rey or Ahsoka capable of outfighting larger people. In the Matrix, Trinity's awareness of the Matrix and training allows her to kick the crap out of still-enslaved humans and computer programs. Buffy has magic that allows her to kick anyone's ass despite being 5'4" and maybe weighing in at 100 pounds. Most superheroes regardless of gender have some level of superpowers, gadgetry and/or training that let them kick multiple people's asses in a fight.
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  3. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    I don't care about Moll beating up Starfleet officers.
    Reason 1: Jadzia Dax.
    Reason 2: Kira Nerys
    Reason 3: Tasha Yar

    Moll is fine hand-to-hand. The stupidity is in A) Dr. Fucking Culber lasting longer than TWO armed security officers, and B) Not having 50 fucking security officers beam right into Sickbay to contain her.
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  4. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    And cowboy-magic. Don't forget cowboy-magic.
    That doesn't even need plot justification.
  5. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Being trained still doesn't excuse someone from the laws of nature.
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  6. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Superpowers and rare gifts ought to be acknowledged, then. I have no problem with Buffy for exactly that reason.
  7. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    Let's just accept that a lot of hand-to-hand fights are unrealistic in Trek and elsewhere, whether it's that such fights do not automatically and quickly ending in favor of the genetically engineered human, alien, android, mass group of attackers involved; people resorting to hand-to-hand when they have access to weapons, etc.

    In other cases, it mostly doesn't matter. It could be that Moll is a baseline human woman no different from those in 2024. It could be that she's a quarter Augment, or that she's packing prosthetic limbs, or she uses some subcutaneous tech that gives her an advantage in hand-to-hand. It mostly doesn't matter how she can kick the ass of men who are bigger than her -- it just matters that she can and did.
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  8. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    And that's why I have no problem with Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor. They overcome physical disadvantage with TOOLS.
  9. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Unless it's "The Fast and The Furious Twelve" then Vin Diesel can eat a car, and fart it at a guy.
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  10. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Ok. Apply those same standards to Rocky. Rambo. Chuck Norris (as previously mentioned)

    Why is it acceptable to see a male character perform obviously ridiculous feats of strength, but not female characters?

    This question is also directed to FF.
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  11. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    So men can be ridiculous, but women MUST use tools?
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  12. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Zoe has no super powers nor do we see monotonous scenes in which she is being trained or working out, yet you accept her ability to fight. Why?
  13. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    Which women fighters do you have a problem with? I bet they use tools or training or have some other thing going on that explains why they can succeed in hand-to-hand against bigger men.
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  14. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Everyone in "Birds Of Prey/Harley Quinn" used a nasty brutal melee weapon in the final fight.
    CHUDs still cried.
    :shrug:
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  15. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Because men are genererally more capable of physical feats.

    Chuck Norris was a champion kickboxer, for fuck's sake. There is credibility there you can't fake with camera tricks and compliant stunt men. Same with Gina Carrano.
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  16. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    Remember when Jadzia Dax easily fought hand to hand with Jem'Hadar while trading witty repartee?
    Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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  17. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Motherfucker, Martin Short was doing a parody of Chuck hobbling around like an old man, and stuntmen falling down as he waved his hands in the fucking 90's.
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  18. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    So, with minimum qualifications, men can be superhuman and still be believable?
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  19. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Moll isn’t in Starfleet.
  20. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Yeah, another TV show was inconsistent with the strength of bad guys. One moment Worf can barely take them hand-to-hand, then that.
    :dayton;
  21. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Which proves what, in your mind?
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  22. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    So, you’re saying, who wins fight scenes is dependent on the storyline?
  23. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    No. Men can have realistic physical capabilities of a male, which are on average going to be measurable higher than a female, and anything beyond that should be acknowledged as superpowers.
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  24. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    Well that's all of them. Spock's strength varies wildly on TOS as well.
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  25. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    And I am free to judge them on realism, even members of the immune to criticism XX characters.
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  26. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    (Arthur Fleck)
    You wouldn't get it.
    :diacanu:
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  27. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Explain Rambo.
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  28. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Explain what? That he was some kind of highly trained Ranger or Special Forces, AND an experienced combat veteran?

    Women couldn't even get into those forces until they lowered the fitness requirements.
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  29. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Special forces training makes machine gun fire weave around you like rain off an Armor All-ed windshield.
    Don't you know that?
    It's science.
    :async:
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  30. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Please. That kind of training would not be sufficient for one person to wage a war against and entire town.
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