Student Debt Cancellation

We've got a guy who'd fit in with UA and FF in our social circles.

He loves to screech "schools don't teach critical thinking"

Problem is, everyone else who received that same public education during the same time is a halfway critical thinker.

He can't contemplate that the problem just MIGHT be with him...

No, the question was if I'd done anything worth asking/receiving forgiveness over. I would have to say yes, but not for "breaking my word." I've taken that very seriously as an adult.

I can't swear to the financials of any employer I've ever had. I have heard unverified claims that my current employer is funded entirely by family money rather than investors and bank loans. This would appear to indicate a disinclination to seek outside support, but I really cannot know. Given a choice, I would more readily dump my tax contributions into a company than makes useful items for noble purposes than I would a herd of unemployed Gender Studies graduates who think "victimhood" is a vocation and nose piercings are a good investment. Getting something back for my money is a big deal to me.

Republicans and "Libertarians" when the topic is tax cuts for the well-to-do: "More money in people's pockets is good for the economy!"

Republicans and "Libertarians" when the topic is student loan forgiveness for working people: *gurgling incoherent rage*

Most of that post I agree with. But, then you shit on something like this. Gender Studies is one of those things idiot right wingers pounce on and laugh at - like 3rd graders and their bathroom humor. It wouldn’t hurt the entire population to have at least one semester of gender studies.

Underwater basket weaving, on the other hand …

Do not include me among those in support of your "tax cuts for the rich" boogeyman. I am on record as in favor of taxing investment income at the same rate as wage income, for example.

of course they're completely self sufficient and receive no special breaks (in your mind)... noble and useful? so, gov't contractor making military parts?

I picked an easy target, but there are any number of subjects that aren't a straight line to a marketable skill, which should be the obvious prerequisite of loaning anyone money.

Quit being stupid. I was very explicit in that I don't actually know and could only relay what I had heard.

Safety equipment for school buses, in part. So the little bastards have something to vandalize.

There’s a whole lot of things I’d require for a loan to obtain a piece of paper required for a job. First one being that the business requiring such a piece of paper should pay for the potential employee to have it.

However, higher education was not traditionally intended to be a requirement for a job. It was intended for scholars and decision makers. But since intelligence is not guaranteed in offspring, the wealthy had to find other ways to ensure that their idiot children got a leg up up. And that’s by making it as difficult as possible to rise out of poverty.

Yup. We (the collective "we") have allowed business interests to gaslight us into thinking that the purpose of an education system is to provide them with a ready-made workforce so they won't have to cut into their profit margins by investing in training.

Hold the phone.
Am I a 'deadbeat college student'? Let me know; it'd be interesting if I actually made a list!

I got my BSc back in 2009. Outside of this $10k forgiveness, I'm finally in a position where I can start paying it off; I'm also working 50-60 hours a week.

Bronze Swimming Certificate?

A Silver Swimming Certificate needed a bigger loan. And actual swimming skillz

As I asked @Bill Carson, you do realize there are contracts that are void or voidable as a matter of law? Also, as has been pointed out, when one party set to receive a benefit under a contract rescinds a contract, does that not relieve the indebted party's obligations under the contract?

almost as invaluable as when I was pushing cartons full of swiffer pads the last few feet into the taping machine, sounds like.

or maybe feeding the plastic grinding machines, as there's walking involved.

The product might be noble and useful in a loose sense, not sure if that transfers to the drone pushing the button

Show me a loan where the party receiving the funds gets to say “Nah, someone else needs to pay this. Not me.”

Pretty much all federal student loans have that option if you follow the requirements. And as you know the cumulative value of those loans exceeds $1.5 trillion. So it’s not like some rare shit.

Yes, Nazis are of course famous for their "hidden" symbolism.

Which record would that be? I would love to see an example of that.

You wanted to talk about contracts. Don't change the subject because you don't understand contract law beyond "the basic concept of a contract."

If a party to whom performance is still owed decides to waive the other party's obligation to perform, and therefore rescinds the contract, how is the other party breaking the contract?

Also, now that you want to talk about loans, one party stepping in to pay a loan is entirely possible even outside of student loans.

https://www.lendingtree.com/home/mortgage/what-is-an-assumable-mortgage/

I really suggest you do some basic research on contract law and loans before you form an opinion on this.

Not unusual when you were defrauded out of what you were supposedly getting for your commitment.

That's why it was perfectly fine to wipe out all the debt related to those for-profit colleges that sold you junk degrees.

"Defrauded."

too late to be reviewing the thread but briefly:

I am well known to be a Warren-ite. There was nothing at all wrong with her $50k proposal, which she was still pushing Biden on after he took office.

Biden by contrast campaigned on $10k of forgiveness which progressives saw as almost a token amount but all this time he's seemed pretty fixated on it and we didn't hear about any modifications until Wednesday. BUT the secret sauce is that there are a LOT of Warren acolytes within his broader staff and advisors:


Wall Street was relieved when Sen. Elizabeth Warren was passed over for the leadership of the Treasury Department. But now the financial industry faces another threat: President Joe Biden is enlisting a small army of her former aides and allies to run his government.

Warren’s expanding network in the upper echelons of the administration includes protégés who helped execute her aggressive oversight of big banks and other corporations as well as friends who share her views of the risks looming on Wall Street. But it goes beyond finance, covering pivotal posts at the Department of Education and even the National Security Council.

The Warren recruits mark a victory for the progressive movement, which has supported her yearslong “personnel is policy” campaign to chip away at the dominance of corporate insiders in setting policy for Democrats. Those who took on the fight with Warren say they’re pleasantly surprised it has produced so many results under Biden, reflecting a new emphasis on inequality and challenging corporate power. Industry lobbyists, in turn, warn that banks, private equity firms and consumer lenders should pay close attention.

The appointments “confirm that Sen. Warren will be the most influential voice in the financial policy debate under the new administration,” said Karolina Arias, a former Democratic Senate aide who is now a partner at Federal Hall Policy Advisors.

The growing list of Biden personnel backed by Warren and other progressives illustrates the leftward shift underway in the Democratic Party’s approach to policymaking, which was also seen in the $1.9 trillion aid package that Biden signed into law Thursday.

“No one should be surprised Sen. Warren has virtually hand-picked the financial and other regulatory nominations she cares deeply about,” said Consumer Bankers Association President Richard Hunt, who represents banks that have faced withering criticism from Warren and her allies.

The Warren alumni at senior levels of the executive branch include banking and economic policy staffers who spent years leading her office’s oversight of Wall Street. Bharat Ramamurti is now deputy director of the White House National Economic Council and Julie Siegel is Treasury deputy chief of staff.

‘Most influential voice’: Warren’s network spreads throughout Biden administration - POLITICO

Ramamurti is particularly key - he was no mentee on economics, he's as weighty a mind as she is.

My hypothesis is that once the Warren crowd say Joe wouldn't budge on the topline figure he campaigned on, they shifted into campaigning for add-ons and secondary provisions to make the policy bigger and bolder than "okay here's the $10k i promised now shut up."

Likely why it took so long while the media was reporting "he's still thinking about it."

In it's final form, it is indeed a BFD even if it's not the plan she campaigned on. The rider concerning Pell grants is major because of the means testing of the grants in the first place. You are effectively means-testing on the front end AND on current eligibility, ensuring Higher degree of targeting to middle and lower income.

Moreover, the changing rules and provisions concerning repayment of existing loans, and new loans going forward, will lead to a LOT more loans being erased:

Lower minimum payment, calculated on a narrower segment of your income, and stretching to 225% of the poverty line is by itself huge, making it more possible to keep up payments. The shortened time from 20 to 10 years to bee eligible for waiving the remaining balance will end a lot of loans. Beyond those who qualified for the initial forgiveness there will be a noteable number who have a 10 year record, or a significant portion of it, that will be roped into this provision. And the biggest jewel of all - no interest accrues if they make there payments, meaning that they can't end u with an every growing debt because of interest.

It's certainly not everything progressives want, but it immediately takes care of 20 million out of about 45 million who have debt and brings many of the other's closer to the exit.

another take on that:

the second point in the White House’s “three-part plan” that caught my attention. Labeled, “Make the student loan system more manageable for current and future borrowers,” that section of the document went on to detail changes that would cap monthly payments at 5% of discretionary income for low-income borrowers. Currently, the cap is 10%. This is a big deal that can and will reduce the financial burden for a lot of people month to month.
This Education Department rule would also adjust how much income counts as “non-discretionary income.” The fact-sheet explains this as a guarantee “that no borrower earning under 225% of the federal poverty level—about the annual equivalent of a $15 minimum wage for a single borrower—will have to make a monthly payment.”
Additionally, loan balances will be forgiven after 10 years of payments (instead of the current policy of 20 years of payments) on a loan with a balance of $12,000 or less.
And finally, this new department rule would also “cover the borrower’s unpaid monthly interest.” “No borrower’s loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low.”

What's the deal with Biden's student debt forgiveness plan? (readtpa.com)


A good bit of second tier details here
FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces Student Loan Relief for Borrowers Who Need It Most - The White House



And for those of you inclined to shout "Not fair!" - read this:

Yes, Life Isn't Fair - by Charlotte Clymer (substack.com)

A key Reagan advisor warned in 1970 that free college was producing the dangerously explosive "dynamite" of an "educated proletariat," and "we have to be selective on who we allow to go through higher education":



The Powell memo had a similar sentiment.

Worth noting that free or very cheap public colleges can under attack from the right almost simultaneously as people began to realize that desegregation and the civil rights movement would lead to a fuckton more college educated blacks unless something were done about it.

Here is our analysis of Biden's executive order to cancel student debt: *41 million are eligible *25 million eligible for up to $20k *20 million, including 3.8 million Black borrowers, could have their entire debt canceled *25 million will still hold debt

https://t.co/OsS6b6OXYU

"Canceling" student debt for doing nothing wrong or illegal shows how even the supposed moderate Democrats are enthrall to the whims of the radical SJWs

https://twitter.com/leftistlitwick/status/1562647820221329409?s=21&t=vLx4A2Pu8dUJOIUD8Gku6A

not exactly inaccurate.

those who counsel students into programs they are unsuited for and/or the colleges that continue to offer programs of soon to be obsolete skills, for instance. They had an obligation to the student's best interests that was mishandled-intentionally or otherwise.

not too mention the long tradition of requiring a new edition of required texts every year or so, preventing resale of already overpriced books.


gonna pull a farmer here:

What you're describing is breach of contract and communism!

I forget who said it and my paraphrasing is clunkier that the original but:

There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who suffer needless adversity and go ‘That sucked, no one should have to go through that!’ and those who respond with ‘That sucked, everyone should have to suffer like I did!’

The former are decent people. The later are assholes.