Where? Link to the video because it sounds nothing like what he has said. What he is is anti-religion, you might have heard of a movie he made where he pointed out how stupid religion was. The difference is he applies his atheist principles to all religions equally where as liberals have a weird double standard for Muslims even though Muslims are even worse than Christians in espousing things liberals should hate and argue against. Things like executing people who leave Islam and supporting terrorism or breaking down the separation of church and state. Hell, he frequently calls war a waste of money, lives, and time so I have to conclude you are, once again, talking out of your ass and making things up again as usual. Do better. I actually believe you can do better but I am frustrated that you don’t.
Go ask @spot261 for that type of engagement. I know the process too well. I make a well rationalized argument with citations to prove my point, and you don't aknowledge any of it and continue to say bullshit. We get to the same conclusion whether I put forth an effort or not. So just get on with saying I have nothing despite your completely ignoring Bill's noted islamophobic ranting and support for middle east wars because Islam is dangerous. Maybe I will feel like playing your game tomorrow or something.
You are being especially stupid here. There was no one born more privileged or elite in Canada than Justin Trudeau yet every liberal immediately forgave him and made excuses for him when he did multiple transgressions far worse than many others liberals demanded destroyed on site. THAT is different standards for different people and that is why you, as well as your side, are a bunch of hypocritical liars who flip flop and switch standards at the drop of a hat to which ever fits your agenda most at that moment. You can keep making excuses for it but it is self evidently true.
I take it back. I am beginning to think you can’t do better. You claimed, without a shred of support or evidence that Bill Maher called for Muslims to be killed and supported war, you are both a fool and a liar. As usual you have babbled a bunch of unsupported nonsense and your posts are just lies and diarrhea. You remain the same waste of space you have always been.
My word you really are like a dog with a bone for some reason, that's three days in a row you've thrown unwarranted digs in my direction. It bothered me the first time, now it's just irritating given the only complaint you seem to have is that I actually converse with people on the right as human beings and have a reasoned discussion. Heaven forbid we conduct ourselves like adults in a world shaped by insults. However in this case I've been looking for any instance of Maher supporting the Iraq war and can find none. In fact for all his evident faults (and he does indeed have many) Maher seems to have consistently been a vocal critic of the Iraq war. He's definitely Islamophobic which goes beyond mere dislike of religions in general but I've seen nothing to suggest he has advocated violence. Can you point me in the right direction?
First off, about the digs at you, you did pull some shit. It is great that you are nice to me, but to use that as a quid pro quo that I should ignore @oldfella1962 racist white trash nature was a little silly at best. Hey, if that is something you want to overlook in a person that is up to you, but if you thought being nice to me so I would not bring that shit up was going to work you really showed some bad judgment. It just demonstrated to me that nice has it's price, and you can keep your nice. As for Maher he revealed his true colors a little while back with Ben Aflek of all people. He went out there supporting the battles against terrorism which really become the war on Islam when you push him. We have to keep blowing up innocent people because if we don't the terrorists win. He does not like the war when it comes to criticizing the right wing, but he pretty much says the same things they do about why we have to keep fighting it. However, I find hating it because you are an atheist and think they are animals and hating it because you are christian and think they are animals just goes down the same old way. Now you are on @Dinner's side. So far I have seen you bitch because you don't want oldfellah's racism to give him a bad reputation. Then you agreed with @Dayton Kitchens that the present group of dems was a byunch of loonies. You excuse was nice, but still boils down to the same reason I claimed. You are too busy trying to give respect to jerkoffs that you were careless and said a fairly decent group of candidates overall were a bunch of loonies because you didn't take two seconds to realize dayton kitchens would not be referring to the republican clown car of 2016 and of course he was saying the dem field this election were loonies. Now you are over here agreeing with @Dinner about Bill maher and trying to excuse his blatant islamophobia and general prejudice vs religion. So olfellah should not be called out for his racism because you are nice to people, you were so worried about being nice to dayton you accidentally called the dems a bunch of loonies, and now Bill Maher has not been supporting a war with Islam because that is the only thing those people understand because our biggest local anti-muslim bigot says so? If that is where you want to go with all of this.
Not with Trump in office enabling the rich who keep him oppressed/repressed! BTW this applies to everyone on wordforge - when Trump leaves office it's all ice cream and puppy dogs in your future! google it!
"I make a well rationalized argument with citations to prove my point" - Tererun Tererun does this about as often as this happens to Stevie Wonder:
okay I'm at a loss - can someone explain to this Yankee (unless Illinois is considered being in the south) what my quote has to do with Dicky? I have to admit trying to figure out Tererun's thought process has me stymied. Her brain runs like a V8 engine with only five cylinders firing in random order.
Or maybe I just disagree with you about how to engage @oldfella1962 and questioned the necessity of constant insults which do nothing to help the situation except shut down constructive conversation? You may feel differently but I'm all in favour of civil discourse with people I disagree with. There are times I fall short of that as we all do, but I don't see conflict as being a useful point of first call, especially with someone who I have found willing to listen when he isn't on the defensive. You have the right to insult people in here, that's your call. I have the right to question the usefulness of it. There's no quid pro quo involved and I've gone from a little hurt and confused here to frankly bending over backwards to accommodate the sudden shift in your attitude. Maybe I was cooking three different meals with my laptop on the worktop at the time and made a simple mistake with @Dayton Kitchens ? You know, overstretched the old multi tasking thing? His comment at a glance looked quite reasonable and I treated it as such because I'd misread it. Fuck me it's not like typos and misreads are a new concept and I don't expect to be harangued about it incessantly to the detriment of actual debate. Maybe, just maybe, I'm not on anyones' "side", I just look at an issue and try to draw my own conclusions without being tribal about it? Most of my views of the world fall on what most Americans would term the "liberal" side of some imaginary fence, sure, by any objective standard I'm very much on the left on most issues. The far left by the standards of most people here, in fact. That doesn't mean I'm in some sense tied to mindlessly backing anything asserted by my peers without question. It doesn't mean I don't apply critical thinking. I got here on my own without following a crowd, I don't feel the need to follow one now. Most of the time on most issues you and I tend to pull in the same direction, but there's no way in which I feel my positions make me part of an ideological team. I savaged @Dinner the other day over autism because I knew he was outright wrong and make deeply offensive comments about autistic kids (I have one), but in this case I genuinely didn't know. So I asked. I saw you making a claim and Dinner asking for verification. I didn't know who was right so I did a bit of searching and couldn't find anything to support your position. I could have stopped there and just decided you were wrong but it seemed to me you may well have something I hadn't found, hence the post. I'm not here simply to waste time exchanging insults with people. Granted there are some positions people have expressed here which I do find truly repugnant (guns as a natural right?) and I do get worked up over them, but by and large I don't see much future in a debate decided simply by who have the most cutting insults, especially as neither you nor I are particularly gifted in that regard anyway.
Now @Tererun, is this the exchange you have in mind? Problem I have is this one seems to be cut short, it ends with Bill sayng "let's talk about ISIS" so it's entirely possible there's something after the ten minutes available, but on the basis of this segment all I hear is talk about criticism, not violence. The sticking point seems to be the extent to which fundamentalism is mainstream within Islam and whether liberals apply different standards to Muslims than to Christians. I actually agree with the guy sat next to Affleck (forgot his name) that characterising Islam as dictatorial and oppressive really does rely on cherry picking and absolutely I agree Maher comes across as bigoted, but nothing about supporting the war. Is there something else?
At minimum I would think that 'Republican' and 'Conservative-Liberal' should be reversed... But a curiousity -- does this chart allow for such things as left-centric monarchies?
I'm not certain if only this is the most unbiased chart I could find. The rest were all about how EEEeeevil those on the left were (they had liberals listed under "Communism") or just outright buggered in how they displayed everything. This is honestly the closest I could find to a reasonable chart.
So how has that worked? He has listened? Or have you just excused his behavior because he does not shout nigger nigger every two seconds? I could understand that maybe you have not seen his history. I am pretty sure you would still make excuses for him even if you had. Because that is what you do. That is the problem. While you are playing with white trash oldfellah he uses that time to post every time some black person gets jailed around him. It is this narrative he pretends he does not portray, but yet he does. That is OK with you, but it is not with me. Oldfellah exists and he spouts crap, and this is where it is supposed to be spouted. However, I am going to remind him that over and over again he has made that narrative that blacks are stupid thugs, and then pretends he didn't do anything. It is one of the reasons he does not like me. I keep on calling his racist bullshit out and that bothers him because he does not want to be labelled a racist, but he would like to point out every time a black person does something stupid. There comes a point where you are bringing the shit in. It is like the media giving time for stupid debunked conspiracy lies because they want to pretend to be neutral. At a certain point you become complacent in spreading the shit for them. Should we have an argument that black people are not monkeys because the right wing blowhards want to make such a claim? At a certain point when you don't call the shit out for what it is you end up giving it a place. When you deel with the bullshit oldfellah, dinner, marso, tuttle, and dayton spread like it was even a debate you elevate it to a level of acceptability which it should not be. I am fine with you made a mistake, but you don't seem to recognize the mistake came from the fact that you are trying to treat a scumbag that says awful things with respect. That is what happens when you try to pretend dayton is a decent human being. People make mistakes and when you end up trying to pretend @Dayton Kitchens has a decent point you are going to end up missing something. In this case you actually called the dems loonies. Maybe ijnstead of making excuses you might realize it is better to do the exact opposite of what you are doing. Always regard dayton is wrong and be surprised when he is right. Yes, you might make the same mistake on the other side and assume dayton is wrong when he says something, but no one here is going to give you too much shit about that except for dayton, and he is a POS anyway. Who the fuck cares about his feelings? That is fine for some people, but when you have people who openly want to down certain groups because reasons you might want to consider where that put you. Here is the point. It is @Dinner . He does not engage in honest discussion. Go ahead and point out all of his flaws, but remember it is still @Dinner . The more you drag him into conversation the more you get Islamophobia and his other prejudices all over the conversation. Then you wonder why every conversation becomes about racism and prejudice. It is because you have to kick the racist prejudiced ideas out before you can have a real conversation. Part of the way you do that is just to label it racist and shut the fucking door on it. If you don't they get you going around in circles trying to explain simple things like 2+2=4. That is nice, but exchanging insults with people is somewhat of the reason I am here. Nothing else is happening around here. Everyone wants things as impersonal words on a screen. I don't get any more than that. I am never going to meet anyone here. The only person I might know if they walked by me is @Dayton Kitchens , and I don't want to see that ugly waste of flesh cross my path. I have been around a few places and I can get something similar within a couple of weeks on some other message board. There is some nuance to WF, but it is hardly unique.
To be honest yes, I have seen oldfella adjust his position on occasions, I've seen dinner adjust his. I've adjusted my own from time to time too. That's how the world changes, in tiny increments. Sometimes people listen to me, sometimes they don't, but the fact that I listen to them certainly does no harm and you'd be surprised how the personas people adopt drop away when they actually start to trust you. I said yesterday there are two people in here about whom I've found nothing positive to say yet. There are omissions there you might not expect because people have made a point of engaging in pm where they don't feel the need to play silly buggers and throw insults all day, where they aren't reflexively on the offensive and hiding their true colours. You'd be surprised at some of the people I've had very productive exchanges with when they aren't playing a part. You talk about having to kick ideas out before you get the real conversation, but how often does that actually happen? I do believe the best way to get people to let their guard down is to let yours down first and take a leap of faith. Sometimes you get stung doing so and it's much easier not to do it again and go back to the mudslinging, but everything worth doing comes with a price. Do people often engage with you in good faith? I'll give you a clue as someone who's been paying very close attention to the dynamics in here, they really don't. The only people who take you on are those like me who already agree with you. You spend day after day throwing insults across a board with people you don't know for.....what? When you go to bed at night what positive things have happened in your day as a result of being here? Did you come out ahead on points against Dinner or Dayton? It's your day, spend it how you want, but don't be surprised when nothing constructive comes from it and don't mischaracterise me as being neutral because I approach people (and that's what's behind all those usernames) in a manner which allows ideas to be exchanged. It's having those ideas which makes the exchange worth having and the world is not short of people who want to shout slogans at each other and become ever more antagonistic, it doesn't need me to do it too.
They do. Ben Affleck pretty much represents the typical far left response to the subject, which is to ignore all facts and call anyone who disagrees with them racist. What did Maher say that was bigoted? I watched the entire clip and all he did was state facts using polls.
Stating polls and being bigoted aren't mutually exclusive if one is selective in the choice of polls and what conclusions to draw from them. It isn't hard to find polls disputing the picture he paints but he doesn't bring them to the table, only the ones which can be used as pieces of his chosen jigsaw.
True. Traditionally in the Middle Ages the Queen sat to the King’s left while the highest ranking and most trusted military man sat to the right. Thus the origin of the term “He is the king’s right hand man”. Often the way it would be signaled which of his sons was to be his heir was by having him take over the position of the right hand man.
With that form of logic ,everyone who ever uses a poll to state a fact about a demographic is being a bigot. Show them then. What polls are there which contradict everything Bill Maher said?
With all respect, I know you mean well, but your efforts are wasted on some people here. Your fatal flaw is that you think everyone you debate with is coming in good faith, and that is just not true. We call people like oldfella and Dayton and Dinner racist bigots because they have well earned that titled with their ignorance. You won't be the savior that helps them see the light if a decade to 20 years of posting in this group hasn't woken them up by now. Sorry, old sport.
Also the origin of the terms "left" and "right" as we understand them in the political arena today. In which case why engage anyone?
For my entertainment I just like seeing them show their asses. There are people I've disagreed with who I think come from good places, but I don't have that kind of energy to mollycoddle every single bigot. For me (and Tererun and Nova and Alphaman and any other minority here), it's not just about a couple of idiots on an obscure website but a longer pattern of bullshit we've seen all our lives. People like Tererun are the ones who get fed up with begging for respect and trying to have polite discourse and just say fuck it and wreck rich rich shot until they fear us. There isn't one single right in the history of the world that was won over by coddling willful ignorance. I like you enough that I won't be smug about it when (not if) you finally have enough of their bullshit, but you'll be in the same place in 2024 with those two as we were in 2014.
@spot261 maybe you need a little more ecplanation of where I am coming from. One of the things that comes down on trans people, and probably all non WASP people, is this idea that we should all change for the bigots. Why do you got to crossdress? Why do you have to do it in public? Why do you have to do it at work? You know it bothers people that you are that way, so why can't you be more like what they want. It would make things go so much smoother if you could just see their point of view. To keep my job at TWC I was called into an office with the two people who were calling me faggot and other gay slurs and they were allowed to berate me for two hours, and whenever I tried to speak up I was told I was the problem for annoying them. I took that shit and no one spoke up for me because if they did then they were the problem too. I was being so mean to the bigots by being me. I cannot even imagine what black people go through having to see that shit fall on them all the time. Why can't you be more white? Look at all these black thugs in the news. That is what being black is and that is shameful. That is the shit @oldfella1962 does. He never posts a complimentary article about here is some cool black people doing positive things. He defends his white trash hillbilly friends. They are all just good old boys waving their confederate flags. It bevomes the same thing with trans people Hey look at what this 300 pound hairy guy in a dress did. Let us all have a good laugh. That is what all trans people are despite it not being true. This is who he is. Then to have you, who just has to please everyone and your anti-conflict bullshit, come along and say you should not be so mean because it angers the bigots. It does not fucking matter. You could just anger them by existing. Sure they have their people who act the way they want and do the things they want them to do. Those are the good ones. Why do black people have to dress all outrageous with their pants around their ankles making all the white bigots mad? Why do you trans people have to dress all girly and make the WASPs all mad by being up in their faces? Why are you mean to them and make them freak out? Because they are going to freak out anyway. Don't come around to me and get mad at me for pointing out oldfellah is a racist ass because it makes oldfellah mad. Tell oldefellah he should stop being a racist ass if you want the conflict to end. No, I don;'t give a fuck I am up in their face, and I do take a bit of joy out of popping their overinflated bubble. I used to wonder why black people bucked what seem to be the normal way of wearing clothing. Then I realized it might just be because that normal way is considered the white way. Even if that is the wrong reason, I don't give a fuck anymore to try and tell someone how they should be who they are. It was wrong when I used to do it, and I should have just kept my nose out of it. If it makes them happy or feel better about themselves then do it. I am tired of the trap where some racist dipshit turns my mind against others out of some bullshit reason. @oldfella1962 can go fuck himself, and if you want me to be nice to him because it hurts his wittle feelings to be called the racist piece of white trash he is then you go fucking comfort his butthurt. Don't bring your bullshit down on me for being me. Maybe you should have been paying better attention because that is not who I am and the line of people who have a problem with me starts way the fuck over there. When I have a fuck to give I will get to you in good time.
