Dave Chappelle "Sticks and Stones"

That while she was able to appear to laugh off what many have called transphobic, the same kind of abuse caused her to end up taking her life. Even if cis people don't see how it slowly eats away at people and don't see the damage it causes, it's still slowly chips away at people.

Whether or not you enjoy it as a comedy special, Nanette does a great job of explaining how things laughed off and not intended to be taken personally can still be deeply damaging.

I cannot say for sure, but it looks like the end was when she was attacked by the GLBT community for having a differing opinion. She was a standup comic. She faced the transphobic people head on. I am sure that wore her down, but one of the things that is nice in this world is that you can pretty much expect the GLBT community not to treat you in the same way as the homophobic community. So you have a relative safe space. That is extremely important for your own mental wellbeing.

However, that community will turn on you in a heartbeat if the conformists don't like what you say. Years ago when I was first on the internet I made the mistake of saying I don't totally hate being male because there were some fun things. You would not believe the crap that came from that in the trans group I said it in. You think the haters around here are terrible with there claims about trans not existing. First the judgmental trannies came out and started saying I was not a part of the community, and then the people who did not want to be attacked by them joined in or else they would have been attacked. It is the same way the homophobic bigots act.

I would imagine that when the GLBT community attacked her and they booted her out of her safe spaces and beat her back to the homophobes she realized she had nothing left. I am quite sure if you made the mistake of saying what is so wrong with having a sense of humor about things, and tried to suggest she did not deserve the cancel culture garbage from allies and the GLBT community you would have been condemned for your view. Seeing her last words it was clear she was well aware that her defenders were taking crap for her words as she apologized for the pain she caused them.

There is absolutely no reason to think GLBT people are over the same hurdles of transphobic society as a group. It is just a different group of self important influencers. People who are influencers should be tossed into a fire for the problems they cause in the world.

except, you know, the trans person who killed him/her self explicitly said she loved Chapelle’s work, that the two of them were friends, and that she/he liked the special even telling other people to shut up. So it is sad when a troubled person commits suicide the desperation of liars trying to dishonestly pretend it had anything to do with Chapelle is utterly transparent in its dishonesty.

For those pushing an agenda truth rarely matters. They are only interested in pushing their agenda by hook or by crook.

*Irony meter turns red and liquefies*

I see a lot of this on Tumblr, which is filled with a lot of young baby gays born after 2000 and are absolutely appalled by things like the fact that there were a lot of May/December romances in the old days because there were so few put kids that hardly anyone under 25 came out as gay until the 90s, at least (my own cousin came out at 22 in 1992). And then, there's the bullying that Gold Star Lesbians use again at anyone who identifies as queer and points out that it was there word before the Straights (tm) and TERFs made it a slur and the asexual and non binary gender discourse. I feel genuinely bad for the friends of mine that fall into those MOGAI categories. I'm on the outside, looking in and there's a whole lotta cleaning up to do in the queer community.

However, that is a debate for queer people to have amongst themselves and resolve without Straights(tm) like Dinner to use as an excuse to perpetuate bigotry he was never really examining to begin with. Yes, gays are allowed to be shitty people, lesbians can eat up TERF rhetoric and trans people can push the dogma that you need to be distressed by dysphoria to be trans and it gives us no right at all to discriminate against them any more than I'd use slurs against Trump supporting Hispanic (except for maybe "retard").

the second hand discussion I was seeing was more about the fallout afterwards more than Dave himself...like not everyone reacted to her afterwards with an innocent chuckle.

I disagree with her defense of his bit, but that is what it is - but EVERY negative visibility for trans people, whether it's in comedy, or in a sermon, or in some bogus "study" by a right wing propagandist that ends up in the newspapers anyway...

All of it creates a culture in which it can be near impossible for some of us to live.

For a recent example - a county in GA was following a court ordered policy and revising it's policies to accomadate trans kids and as soon as it got out, right wingers terrorized everyone involved with death threads and the school board backed down lest someone get killed.

And if you check the comment thread on Facebook, the good christian folk are cheering that they won by "standing up to" the school board.
By threatening to kill them.

I'm sure the trans student(s) in this situation feel real good about their prospects right about now, eh?

that's what those who don't live in our lives can never see - it is VERY possible and often happens that some among us internalize the hatred others throw at us - i have a married lesbian friend who freely "admits" that she is sinning and will surely go to hell (yet she's a passionate Christian).

It's one thing to internalize the "it's all in good fun and jokes don't hurt anyone" narrative as a survival mechanism, but inside, no matter the facade, you cannot ignore that other people consider you an object of ridicule.

Don't get me wrong. If there was not such a huge opposition who is still fighting for the right to discriminate things would be better.

There is a reality of liberal fascism, but it is not what people like @Dinner and the rightards are whining about. I have heard you talk about the right way to be black for some people, and that is an argument your community does not need to be hammering each other with. It is the same with the GLBT community. I have had the conversation with some white gay people regarding black people. It normally comes in regards to what they consider "outlandish" behavior and dress. You are accepting of flamboyant faggots (using the term that brings up the right image) knowing that they can be loud and obnoxious, and in the gay community there is a lot of putting up with the over the top drama queens. Then you are going to come down on another culture and start calling them niggers for being like flava flave? Give it a fucking break.

We are doing the same things and it would be really nice if people would look and see these things. Things like GLBT, race, and culture are not things we are part of by choice. It is what we are born into and we are ourselves within those groups. Things like religion are a choice and to think that is an excuse for other prejudice is a load of crap. (Just putting that in here) we have to accept that we will have differences in thought, preference, and opinion as members of our race, gender, sexual preference, and culture. I can be really devastating to have your people turn on you and throw you to the wolves because of something of a differing opinion.

For myself it was how I differed from the GLBT community and the people who made an issue out of it that I realized how shitty it is to say to someone you are not black enough, or you are not man enough, or you are not hispanic enough. That said, you are not christian enough works because christianity is a set of defined behaviors unlike the previous.

Not sure what you mean here when I've talked about the right way of being black...? Cuz I've been that black who got told she was "acting white" for listening to swing music in high school (a derivative of Jazz, which we created) and watching anime and not being all that fussed about my hair or keeping a polished image so that white folks won't talk about me (yeah, seriously)----- while I scratch my head at certain things like black David Duke supporters, I don't consider them not black. they're just incredibly stupid.

And I also get tired of black folks using the discrimination we face as an excuse to bash on black queer people or to ignore the fact that R. Kelly and Cosby have raped 110+ people between them. If you're saying that we need to pick better battles over who to cancel and why, then yeah I'm with you. But that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to toxic attitudes within our community that needs fixing. As you said, these aren't communities we chose to be apart of, so might as well make it the best as possible.

Not sure what you mean here. The @Tererun story.

Those kids were wrong for that, too. Swing was also pioneered by black musicians and composers. Earl Hines, Duke Ellington, Chick Webb, etc, were all doing swing-style music before white musicians and fans discovered it.

That was what I was talking about. The way to be black is to deal with the effects of having darker skin. You are going to deal with it anywhere, because racists are everywhere. It does not mattet how you compromise, or what you do, prejudice does not care. There are so many different black people that there is no real binder except for running into prejudice, and even that differs by culture and location.

It is like people who want to tell me what being like a woman is. Every time I try to nail down something that makes you a woman there is always a cis woman who is not like that. Cis women give birth, but many don't. Cis women have a uterus, breasts, and ovaries, except when they don't. Wearing mens clothing does not make you not a woman anymore. Even Shania Twain sung about how you can feel like a woman while wearing a man's shirt. I am not a woman because I dress like one, try to act like one, or pass as one. It is just something I knew, and I don't have to be someone else's version of a woman either.

Yes, I can accept some confusion on who I am based upon my actions of not fully fitting into an easily identifiable norm.

People are stupid. Still, you are competing with massive whitewashing and appropriation the country has done. Aside from the cosby show and some movies like harlem nights most presentation of that style music comes from footage of the time where black people were not shown as part of culture.

Oh, I know that.

I also recognize as an adult twenty years removed that these kids were regurgitating crap they were raised with from their own families. They also had a shit ton of home issues: one of my middle school bullies had lost her sister two years earlier and that's something that would fuck up a kid with a better homelife than hers. Her family moved in and out of the school district often. Last time I saw her was senior year where a scheduling error landed me in a remedial class, and she was clearly in her second trimester then.



(That said, most of my tapes at the time were those revival swing groups like Cherry Popping Daddies and the Brian Setzer Orchestra that even the white kids weren't repping and I mean actual tapes because we were deadass broke and I couldn't afford a CD player until 1999!)

Thanks for the pep talk, but I figured that out a loooooooooong time ago

I also had to learn a lot of things I just was never taught as an adult, talking to other blacks and it also got a better respect and understanding for why @Lt. Mewa and @vandygoddess got upset with some of the really horridly snobby, self-loathing things I'd say and do. When you're raised around whiteness and the only healthy families that look like you are on TV (and even those were treated as anomalies within their respective universes), your perception is gonna get a bit skewed.

Kinda ironic post from a guy who would later run away because he was butthurt he couldn't call certain human beings "animals" any more.

Chappelle just won another grammy for best comedy album, by the way. When will the woke mob stop punishing him with all this cancellation?

In retrospect it's so wild that a band was named that and we were all cool with it.

maybe, but I think innuendo was a lot more marketable in the 80s/90s, especially in retro genres.

I have the Cherry Poppin Daddies album.
All their songs are about your girlfriend turning out to be a cum-dumpster, lethal bar fights, and heroin addiction.
They're the Nirvana of swing.

My ace ass ain't even recognize the innuendo until years later

I'd go closer to the Cramps via the Stray Cats/rockabilly influence as far as musical lineage/comparison... that whole Brian Setzer Orchestra brought it out of the basement dives. But yeah, still more songs about getting high school girls day drunk.

A sizeable portion of the BSO catelogue were covers of Stray Cats songs, which were written when he was in his twenties.

I don't think he (62M) has performed "She's Sexy and 17" for a good long minute because that would be.....uhhhhhh