BREAKING: White smoke from the Vatican!

Wasn't Barack an altar boy? What is the equivalent in the Muslim cult, by the way? Molecular decay assembly technician?

Is anyone really surprised that the Pope is on record speaking against gay marriage? How bout we start with some baby steps such as allowing priests to marry women or not having the church actively preach against condom usage in Africa where HIV is running wild. If we can get a Pope on board with those things then maybe we can worry about gay marriage.

So you still don't know the difference between voluntary giving (charity) and compulsory "contributions" (theft)? Okay.

Why not - they already let them be priests, bishops and cardinals.

Only if you've confused Catholicism with churches that tithe.

Hand UP...not hand out to the crack heads and whores who can't pump out more than a dozen by less than 5 guests of the state penitentary.

Fine. You and Barack are in then... good luck.

It's interesting to see the anger expressed by a few people regarding his pronouncements on a couple of issues clouding their ability to see that he just might be able to move things in some other areas.

This thread got stupid right on schedule.

It's not so much surprise as it is resigned expectation. I knew nothing about the man when he came out on the balcony and greeted everyone warmly, and even kindly. It was only after I looked up his bio that I found what I did, and my heart sank a bit. For a moment, I thought maybe we had a genuinely good person who wanted to do good by all. Who knows? Maybe he will, but it doesn't change that initial disappointment.

You know what I find disappointing and a letdown? That anybody thought something good for humanity was going to come out of the thieves' guild that is the Catholic Church nominating its new Thief In Chief.

Seriously? The fact that anybody here expected anything good to come out of that shit...

I'm disappointed in you. Deeply and profoundly disappointed. Dickynoo is the new favorite kid now.

He of course COULD move things in other areas, he's the Pope. But will he? I know as much about him as can be learned by reading the AP News article announcement and this thread. I doubt anyone on this board was really tracking the 20 front runners enough to have any solid, verifiable information on him yet. I hope he's willing to address some of the glaring problems with the Catholic church. But if he isn't the right guy, at least he's old and probably will be out of there within a decade anyway. Btw, I'm not Catholic, my interest is only in seeing a very large organization moving in a positive direction.

there is one huge issue hovering above everything else: decentralization. what's totally acceptable in europe might be a taboo or reason for ridicule somewhere else. so the local bishops (the original church commanders) or cardinals will sooner or later have a lot more say in local policies. it's entirely possible that the diocese of vienna will allow priests to marry but cologne won't in a few decades.

i wonder if the guy will get to it. from what little i know from TV and wiki he just might be.

I'd be interested in hearing exactly what you think this guy will move ahead on. Given his record of working with and not opposing the Argentine military dictatorship for ~20 years even while they were summarially executing people for "crimes" such as daring to write an unfavorable op-ed in a newspaper... Just what do you think he'll stand up for? I mean if he couldn't even be bothered to speak out against murdering parents and stealing their children so they could be adopted by military officers then what good is he?

He sure as fuck as zero ground to stand on when it comes to lecturing people on morality. Further more he's so conservative I don't see him enacting any of the needed reforms so, yes, this really is looking like the Church's continued slow walk into irrelevance.

With post 22...

Right, the Catholic Church is an 800 pound gorilla, it affects quite a bit more than the 1.2 billion adherents. We don't know much about Pope Francis, but he is a Jesuit, which is one of the more "liberal" orders within the church. Liberal is in quotes for the obvious reason that any high placed leader within the church hierarchy is not going to be liberal by any sense of how the rest of us use that term. But it at least means he's probably not a reactionary. That's about as good a selection as we could have expected.

^This. The Let's Snap Our Fingers and Make 2,000 Years of History Disappear into a Black Hole crowd doesn't realize that John XXIII was essentially elected as a placeholder. He was older than this guy (and in an era where life expectancy was less) and had an undistinguished career prior to election. Everyone figured he'd die within a year or two, given the machinators time to solidify their positions.

Instead, he affected more change in the institution than any of his predecessors in centuries.

Damn my bright eyed optimism.

Also, I didn't (and don't) expect change right away, but it was just the initial impression followed up by some depressing details that soured it a bit for me. I have already considered that he may be more like John XXIII, and can only hope that is the case.

You're making even less sense than usual, probably due to the untreated syphilis, but I much prefer earning my nice salary rather than stealing it from troubled and clueless religious souls like the church does.

Diacanu, TLS, actormike, and Castle will now entertain us with an a capella rendition of John Lennon's "Imagine."

The question regarding his interaction with the junta centers on two kidnappings. The accusation is that he didn't say enough to support the two kidnapped priests prior to the junta taking action, and that he was thereby responsible. That's a pretty week claim if you ask me, but it's also a single incident that happened almost 40 years ago. My interest in him regards his position on poverty, which he has specifically said is a human rights violation. Can you picture Benedictis or John Paul II saying that?

What can I say? I'm a bit let down that the new Pope views same-sex marriage not just as bad or harmful, but Satanic.

Among the 115 Cardinals at the convocation, his view was held unanimously. You aren't going to get something different on that issue for some time to come.

Post 22 stated the guy is 76, which is entirely true, which means we're probably going to be doing this again in 5-6 years statistically speaking. How is that wrong much less stupid? It seems entirely factually correct to me.

TLS just gets butthurt when people say something negative the homosexuals that he admires.

I wasn't expecting better, so why am I lumped in there?


Why not taunt the yawping crowds that did/are?

This. And let's see what he does about changing the official stance on poverty and AIDS first, shall we? Triage.

Sorry your raging STD prevents you from comprehending. You can thank your wife for passing it on to you. She never disclosed the train Leroy & Tyrone pulled on her? I'm sure your salaried employment gig keeps her on the straight and narrow now though. You may be on fries now but you'll be third assistant manager soon and that's when the big bucks start rolling in!

But that simply doesn't matter if his stand is that birth control is a mortal sin and women are second class citizens. The key to starting down the road to overcoming poverty is to discard those notions. Access to birth control and gender equality are far and away the leading indicators and most effective tools for fighting poverty in the third world. He can say all he wants that poverty is a human rights issue, but when he supports policies aimed at making poor women have more children than they can care for his rhetoric on poverty only makes things worse by providing an easy path for people who don't understand poverty to act as apologists on his behalf.

Who is pope means little to me and effects me not at all currently.

But I feel about a non European pope the same way I felt about Barack Obama being elected president and the Arizona Cardinals making it to the Super Bowl.

I supported none of them but I still think it is kind of cool and interesting to see history made.

Of course, now this means Argentina probably can't invade the Falklands.