No thread about East Palestine, OH?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Nova, Feb 14, 2023.

  1. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Massive chemical spill fire, potentially worse economic disaster in U.S. History?

    Late stage Predator Class capitalism sets up predictable failure enabled by politicians?

    Life after the Ohio Train Derailment: Trouble Breathing, Dying Animals, and Saying Goodbye | The New Republic

    This goes on for a while

    But there's more

    Ohio train derailment prompts evacuations, uncertainty (msnbc.com)

    Thread by @MorePerfectUS on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App


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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2023
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  2. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Railroads lobbied for the right to carry hazardous & flammable materials on trains with Civil War-era braking systems, while slashing their workforces by 30%, leaving employees exhausted & rails understaffed...
    Fast forward to 2023, East Palestine, Ohio

    Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment (levernews.com)

    More at the link
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  3. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    I mean, no one really cares about the East Palestinians. Fucked up reality but true.
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  4. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Also, no really cares about Ohions. Fucked up reality but true.
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  5. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    Also, there's reports of a similar derailment in Houston.

    Ain't America great?! :soma: :hurr:
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  6. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    but... BIG GOVERNMENT!!!!

    REGULATIONS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!

    ALPHABET AGENCIES!!!
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  7. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    The repeal of the safety regulations took place under the Trump administration?

    They really are making American great again!
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  8. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    As usual a Republican fucks things up so rich people can make more money, then sane people have to clean up. This time literally.
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  9. Damar

    Damar Liberal Elitist

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    I first saw this reported on CNN, but now the Internets are making it into a story about how the MSM is ignoring it because of a cover up, or Biden admin is incompetent, or nobody cares about rural people, etc.
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  10. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    The whole billionaire class is basically Quark's arms dealer cousin and his British buddy at this point.
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  11. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    The EPA said everything is fine. Trust the science, right? :brood:
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  12. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Actually, looking further into this, yes. It's shitty that it happened, it was easily avoided if the GOP didn't have it's head up it's ass. And it's a local tragedy, but I think at this point some actors are engaging in intentional fear mongering to state this is a Chernobyl level event, as some have claimed. A chemist went through the contents of the various containers listed on the EPA website concerning the spill. Most of them are relatively benign, several of them break down quickly in water and are only an issue for a few days. Another is potentially problematic in the ground water in the local area, but so far none has been detected after multiple tests in that ground water.

    Is it possible that the EPA is lying or wrong? Sure. Is it possible that the train company lied about what was in the trains? Yep. But I have a hell of a lot more trust in this administration to find out if that's the case than the previous one, and if they say it's not likely to be a major issue for the region as opposed to the locality I think that is likely true. And hopefully Biden restore the ECP mandate. It always takes more time to find out what the GOP fucked up then it takes the GOP to fuck things up.

    Of course it still could be a considerable issue for a long time, but those on both the far left and far right seem to be hyping it up for their own political advantage. And no doubt also state actors, that want the US to turn on itself.

    Norfolk Southern evidently has offered $25,000 to East Palestine, which is an absurdly low figure and I hope they are sued into oblivion. The people there were rightly evacuated and if it were me I'd be wary of going back for some time. Unfortunately in all such disasters like this many people won't have that option.

    Of course, I'm not expert on any of this, just trying to access the credibility of the information out there. It seems that this has been hyped because of that reporter who got arrested during the governor's address on this. And that looks to be another moron cop (this time, national guard) who felt 'disrespected' that the reporter didn't immediately follow his every utterance. He's being investigated for doing that now.

    Guess we'll see, but I'm fairly confident this isn't some huge conspiracy or apocalyptic disaster.
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  13. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Anti-intellectual talking point, this.

    Is that your intention?
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  14. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Possibly you've not met Albert before.

    Albert never learnt anything his parents wouldn't sign off on.

    As they were a sheet of bent tin and a hacksaw, they couldn't write.
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  15. Nyx

    Nyx Guest

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    A lot of people dropped the ball here, from the Trump administration and it's horseshit in loosening the already absurdly loose regulations even more, to Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg being clearly incapable of the job he was rewarded, Joe Biden and the Dems breaking the railroad workers strike, of which one of their major complaints was a lack of rail safety (this had been voiced last year in a House hearing, too: https://www.congress.gov/event/117th-congress/house-event/LC69424/text?s=1&r=9), and of course Norfolk Southern for being a greedy rat bastard of a company that hid the fact it was hauling caustic chemicals in order to avoid paying extra fines, because god forbid. The fact that the EPA sent people back and lifted the evacuation after such a short time is also inexcusable, especially considering now some of them are concerned that there is a real danger because other chemicals aside from the vinyl chloride were present, and it's like no shit? Vinyl Chloride alone is deadly as fuck (https://semspub.epa.gov/work/05/437069.pdf) and there were other chemicals being hauled by the train, and they certainly mixed.

    Reports in that town of pets, chickens, foxes, animals dying persist. Some people say "but humans seem fine," and yeah, seems that way, but that's because cancer takes a while to develop. I swear we're at the point where government policy is now just "yeah, it will kill ya, but whatayagonadoo? We all die," and are running with it, like with how we sent kids back to school with COVID still killing a shitload of people every day. We live in a goddamn death cult because for these entities the money's too good to give a damn about public health and safety, and now they scramble to appear like they give a damn. Some may believe they do, but I do not.

    Anyway, we've bought as much bottled water as we can, just in case.
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  16. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    No, my intention is that nobody is infallible or above question, even with the shield of government credentials.
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  17. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    and you're somehow unique in this realization how, exactly?

    well, other than the boilerplate anti intellectual talking point/dismissal implying that due to fallibility the agency is ineffective. That's all you.

    The rest of us are likely more concerned with why did the agency fail? lack of enforcement authority? inadequate standards?
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  18. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Chronic underfunding?
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  19. Nyx

    Nyx Guest

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    In the US that's usually the culprit. We'll throw a billion dollars at a jet that won't fly, but clean water? Safe bridges? Fuck no, that's for hippies.
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  20. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Except you, Vanity.
    Smooch that mirror.
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  21. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Pete has been slow to do/say anything which is blame-worthy but the primary fuck-ups so far are with the company and Ohio authorities (DeWine authorized the burn-off plan)

    The media so far as apparently neglected it for lack of a clear political aspect they can both sides about.
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  22. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Chemical Desolation in Appalachia - The American Prospect

    In the following days, reporting from The Lever detailed how Norfolk Southern lobbied against transportation safety rules designed to prevent the exact sort of disaster that happened in East Palestine. They spent big to block new rules requiring rail companies to replace conventional air brakes with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes on cars carrying volatile or dangerous material. The new technology is far more effective at braking—unsurprising given that air brakes were designed in the 19th century—but the upgrades would have cost money.

    .....

    A resident outside of the one-mile evacuation zone recalled the experience from five miles away. Emily Wright, a spokesperson for River Valley Organizing, said, “I feel guilty for not evacuating my family.” On Sunday, she was experiencing asthma symptoms. Her father, who already suffers from bilateral asbestosis, called her saying that his breath had been short all day. “We were told on the news,” Wright said, “the train derailed, it was on fire, but it was controlled.” It was not until Sunday night that authorities reported that some of the boxcars were filled with vinyl chloride. “All of a sudden I’m getting these emergency alerts on my phone, evacuating more people,” Wright said.

    A controlled burn was scheduled for 3:30 p.m. on Monday, supposedly to prevent further explosions of the cars, but it released hydrogen chloride and toxic phosgene gas into the air. Wright told the Prospect that upon learning about the scheduled burn, she decided to pick her daughter up from school early. “I didn’t want her to be on the bus because she would have been on the bus route when it happened.” But the burn was delayed. Initially, the 3:30 p.m. time slot was chosen to avoid weather forecasts of 45 mph winds.

    Around six o’clock, everybody in the Wright home began feeling nauseous. Her 84-year-old grandmother felt strange. Wright’s teeth were hurting, along with others in the house. And her father’s shortness of breath worsened. Similar symptoms were reported across five counties, even in some places in Western Pennsylvania. Later, Wright received pictures from 25 miles south of her, showing towns covered in darkness. “It didn’t even look like they had streetlights,” Wright said.

    Wright’s account tracks with others further from the initial site. Jim Kosior, a resident of Darlington Township, Pennsylvania, approximately eight to ten miles away, described similar circumstances. Kosior posted footage on Twitter. Across a landscape of near total darkness, Kosior says, “These aren’t storm clouds. This is the fucking shit they’re burning off in East Palestine.” When Kosior spoke to the Prospect, he said, “I’ve still got a burning in my lungs,” going on to describe ongoing symptoms of diarrhea and severe headaches.


    From Monday to Wednesday, residents witnessed a string of press conferences that only left them more confused than they were from the start. In one of these press conferences, a local reporter was handcuffed and arrested for trespassing while covering a news conference about the toxic chemicals aboard. Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, who led the conference in question, after the matter said that he was unaware the arrest took place.

    “Less than 24 hours ago,” Ratner said, “they shut down a press conference after a few questions. And all of sudden we can go back home? You would have thought they had all that information [at the press conference].” He continued: “It’s hard … People have to go back to their normal lives. And it’s gonna be sad if in a few years people start seeing negative health effects, [which] we’re already seeing.”

    By Wednesday, residents were notified that the evacuation area was safe to return to based upon air quality samples “below safety screening levels for contaminants of concern.”

    The Ohio governor’s announcement urges residents with private wells to use bottled water until water testing is completed. In the announcement, DeWine states that Norfolk Southern would be providing free bottled water and free water testing through an independent contractor. He additionally notes that Norfolk Southern would be providing reimbursements for families displaced.

    But many residents still have doubts. River Valley Organizing has collected photos documenting the sustained damage across the region. These include pictures of discolored eggs laid by chickens after the crash.

    In a private Facebook group, East Palestine residents have shared anecdotes of continued lung irritation, headaches, and more. Over the weekend, several residents posted images of their children suffering from rashes spread along their arms and faces. Others have described their homes as covered in residue, even after cleaning services were hired, suggesting that despite the notice that it was safe to return, residue from the accident remains in the air. Inside the group, they are urging each other to keep meticulous documentation for any future action against Norfolk Southern.

    Those reimbursements touted by DeWine have drawn scrutiny. After the initial reimbursement announcement, Norfolk Southern expanded the program to include a $1,000 “inconvenience fee” for each person inside a household. At the Abundant Life Fellowship in New Waterford, Ohio, Norfolk Southern has set up shop. The Prospect confirmed with John Fletcher, an employee for Norfolk Southern, that the company was providing inconvenience checks and reimbursements onsite.

    East Palestine resident Zsuzsa Gyenes told the Prospect that on the first day she visited the Abundant Life Fellowship to claim reimbursements, there were only five people in attendance. But by the next day, there were hundreds. Gyenes said she waited for five hours and when she asked a representative from the company to review the paperwork ahead of time for the inconvenience check, her request was denied.

    In order to claim the reimbursement, residents within one mile of the evacuation zone are required to show paperwork proving their residency and identification. For the $1,000 “inconvenience fee,” residents are required to provide Norfolk Southern with a W-9 form, in addition to a Social Security number. Rumors have spread in the Facebook group that claiming one or both could waive a resident’s right to any future class action lawsuit.

    Attempting to quash those rumors, Norfolk Southern spokesperson Connor Spielmaker told a Cleveland news outlet that accepting reimbursements or money would not bar them from filing future legal action. Some residents in the Facebook group have described speaking with attorneys who have provided similar advice.

    However, Michael O’Shea of the Lipson O’Shea legal group says otherwise. In an interview with the Prospect, he said: “I would tell my clients not to give [Norfolk Southern] any W-9 information and not to sign any forms and not to cash any checks until we have a clear understanding from Norfolk Southern.”

    In a similar 2005 incident in Graniteville, South Carolina, 5,400 residents were evacuated from their homes following a Norfolk Southern train crash that resulted in a chlorine spill. Residents who accepted compensation from the company forfeited their rights to any further damages. O’Shea brought up this instance to Norfolk Southern, but Norfolk Southern has not responded.

    Against this backdrop, a blighted landscape remains. Advocacy groups have urged residents to call upon Gov. DeWine to request an emergency declaration from President Biden. At time of publication, an emergency has not been declared, leaving residents alone to attempt piecing their lives back together.

    Under the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (CERCLA), Norfolk Southern could be responsible for all cleanup costs at the site. So far, the EPA has warned the company that it’s investigating the company under CERCLA. Trosky further damned Norfolk Southern. “People in East Palestine live day to day, not paycheck to paycheck.” He derided the $25,000 donation, inconvenience checks, and reimbursements as chump change. Photos shared with the Prospect by Trosky showed workers on the site working without respiratory protection.

    “They’re not even cleaning the trucks coming off that job site,” Trosky said, talking to me on the phone while speaking from the disaster site. “There’s zero containment of what’s on their trucks.” Trosky is concerned about the air quality, but what scares him most is the management of the cleanup site and contaminants that have seeped into the earth. Trosky continued: “In all the creeks, the fish are dead … [Local authorities] kept giving [Norfolk Southern] the power. So now you’re telling me that in less than five days,” he paused, “they completely cleaned it up and it’s safe to return?”
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  23. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Where is Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg anyway? I guess ol' Pete is too worried diversity in the construction industry.
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  24. Nyx

    Nyx Guest

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    Joe is wherever they tell him to be, and Pete finally made an official comment on Twitter today. He was, of course, "concerned," and his thoughts were with the people of East Palestine, all the normal politico speak that gets thrown about as sincerely as "I'm totally into you" from a high priced call girl taking your credit card. It's really going to be up to the NTSB and the EPA, along with various Ohio agencies, which is not good, because outside of major population centers, our representatives are deeply conservative, anti-environment types. I don't expect much more than for people to be told things will be fine, get back to your normal lives while they do a little cleanup, and then in 5 - 10 years we start seeing significant rises in cancer rates in any of the areas affected.
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  25. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  26. Nyx

    Nyx Guest

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    Of course he's not seeing it. It's not like he lives in East Palestine, or anywhere near it. He won't have to drink the water, breathe the air, watch as farm animals die, or expect to get cancer inside of a decade because his government told him things were fine. People should know these assholes by now, they should know that from all the countless environmental disasters that have occurred, people were told, nearly every time, that things were fine and would go back to normal, only for shit to start coming out of the woodwork years later.
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  27. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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  28. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    like this?

    [​IMG]


    ooh. there's someone dressed like a scientist in this article about science!!!

    maybe if I drop in a disparaging remark about Fauci I can distract from this irrelevance with something even more irrelevant?

    seriously? wtf does he have to do with this other than remind us you're a Q tip?
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  29. Eightball

    Eightball Fresh Meat

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  30. Eightball

    Eightball Fresh Meat

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    He is from the railroad and paid to say everything is fine. Republicans should stop worrying.
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