Reactionary Radical Eliminationists vs. Trans

Please show us on the doll how hard the chick from hot topic humiliated you in front of @Jenee .


I am now getting a much more clear picture of a very bad day at the mall for @Uncle Albert . Perhaps this was pre-Jenee and why you are divorced. Did the chick from Hot topic with the pink hair humiliaste you so bad that someone we know divorced you? You do seem a little bit butthurt about the whole ordeal.

Tell us the story. We'll be gentle, I promise.

And them being the subject matter, you are absolved of EVER having to prove that at the individual level. You feel it, so it must be true.

FTFY.

About as well as you "fix" anything.

Meanwhile, in a parallel universe...

Hate-Youtube- Transes are groomers who who want to trans your kids!!

UA- That's a hysterical claim; do you have anything to back that up?

Hate-Youtube- ... *Runs*

UA- Well, I'm glad I looked into that! Good thing I'm not stupid.

Some day, hiding in your sad little fantasy world will finally pay off, Dicknuckles.

https://nypost.com/2023/02/22/four-...ion-their-gender-grow-out-of-it-trans-expert/

This is not new. At least, not to me. These are the same scenarios I’ve stated for years are my childhood. And, as I’ve said before, THAT/This article/the stats this psychologist is talking about, that is the reason these kids are put through all the tests and trials they go through. And if that 1 in 5 child(ren) finally gets through all that, then who is ANYONE else to say they don’t know what they’re doing?

Albert is on my short "I ain't reading their bullshit anymore but Jenee's reply makes me wonder if someone has brought this into the chat:

Fact Check: No, A New Study Does Not Show "Being Trans Is Just A Phase" (erininthemorning.com)

The Daily Mail story, seen 35,000,000 times after being shared by Elon Musk shared it, claims most "gender confused" youth "grow out of it." The study itself does not say any such thing, and does not study transgender people.

A fact check of both the story and the article it cites finds that:
- It does not actually measure transgender people
- Data does not back up the central claim in the news story
- Even still, there is evidence in the study of stable trans identities

The study was published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, run by Ken Zucker - a noted anti-trans activist and researcher with ties to conversion therapy. This journal has become a "parking journal" for most anti-trans research articles.

The study itself looked at the Youth Self Report , given to 2,700 young people in the Netherlands over the 15 years. The study looks at responses to a single question: "I wish I were of the opposite sex," found at the end of the survey. 0 = never 1 = sometimes 2 = often

The study reveals that 12% of 11 year old children indicate they desire to be the other sex "sometimes" or "often," decreasing to only around 3% in adulthood. 19% of people in the survey answer this way at some point. There should be an immediately obvious problem. Transgender people are and were nowhere close to being 19% of the population! Or 12% for that matter! Even the most liberal estimates put the transgender population at 0.5-1%.

So what is it measuring? Well - there are MANY reasons a person might answer that they "sometimes" wish to be the opposite sex. - Feminine boys - Tomboys - People who do not like sexism - Curious minds who fleetingly wonder what it's like In other words, not trans people.

The Daily Mail then shows a chart with an egregious error: the Daily Mail's chart mixes up "sometimes" and "often" from the study, making it seem like the majority of the affirmative sample "often" rather than "sometimes" want to be the other sex - when the reverse is true. What the chart actually shows is that roughly 1% of people "often" wish to be the other sex at age 12-13, and that number is relatively stable all the way through age 25.

Another take here:

Do "Most Gender Confused Children Grow Out Of It"? (substack.com)

There are many more issues though. "Sometimes" presumably includes "rarely." So if one ever fleetingly thought about what it was like "on the other side," they could circle "sometimes." They might be seen as evidence that "being trans is a phase" by The Daily Mail. Of course, this is not how transgender identification works. Trans youth must persistently, consistently, and identify as another gender while also matching other criteria. Sometimes wondering what its like to be another sex is NOT the same as trans identification.



The Daily Mail then interviews Dr. Jay Richards, identifying him as the director of the Helon DeVos Center for Life, Religion, and Family (neglecting to mention this is at the far right Heritage Foundation), who claims trans people desist at 80%+ rates. This is also false. The 80% desistance myth has been covered here (among many other places):

Debunked: No, 80% Of Trans Youth Do Not Detransition (erininthemorning.com)

In short, old studies of data from the same era that this study pulls data from, conflate being trans with other forms of gender nonconformity, which used to be pathologized. This comes, unsurprisingly, originally from Kenneth Zucker - the head of this journal.

TL;DR - The Daily Fail, as usual, just serving as a mouthpiece for GC/TERFS and American Zealots like Heritage, propagating sloppy shit which is persuasive to the sloppy (or bigoted) mind.

Right wingers- *Floods the zone with bullshit data*

Also right wingers- Yeah, but Time Magazine wrote a bullshit piece on climate change in the 70's once.

As usual, the New York Post is being dishonest in its presentation.

I myself was a "gender-questioning child," as I'm sure were many others. I wondered what it would feel like to be a girl; I noticed that most of my friends were girls; I noticed that traditionally male-coded pursuits like sports weren't really my thing.

I am, however, not transgender. I'm just a guy whose interests and personality aren't a 100% match for traditional gender roles.

And there is a huge difference between (1) the kind of questioning that many people engage in during childhood and adolescence, and (2) the certainty that transgender people feel about having been born in the wrong body.

WHY WON'T YOU CONFORM, DAMN YOU?!

Oh, well, if we're going to be recounting experiences, then I'll throw mine in.

I have two friends whom I've literally known since birth. Our moms were friends with one another before we were born, and all of us were born within a month of one another (late 60s). When we were single digit age, the biggest show on Saturday morning TV was Challenge of the Superfriends. We'd get together and play the Superfriends. Invariably, whatever we were playing would require us to be multiple characters, and one kid would invariably opt to be Wonder Woman if our adventure called for it. Fast forward to us graduating high school, two of us opt for college, one of us opts for the Army. I should also point out that one of us also becomes a fundie Christian. Jump ahead to the '00s, the one who opted for the Army lost a hand as part of their service, two of us are married, one has a kid, and the other is just trying to survive. Skip ahead to last year, both the ones who got married have been divorced for a number of years, one commits suicide, one comes out as trans, and the third is just trying to survive. I'll spoiler who was who.

Joining the military in a futile effort to go maximum male (if you're MtF) is a pretty common experience with (eventually out) trans women.

I'd wage there's a LOT higher percentage of late-transitioners who were in the service than in the general population.

Actually, that tracks. I know a lot of trans women who were military men when they served. Even I hung around with the NJROTC kids and on the paintball field with the actual mercenary types. I would not even let myself wear pierced ears in the 90s because someone would have thought I might be a girl inside. I liked my plushies cute, but the only ones I could show was the set of TNMT I won on the jersey shore one summer. I did like playing with guns and sucvh things, so it wasn't really a lie, but I tried to stay away from girlie things because I did not want people to know.

I went into female strip clubs and sold porn. I eventually even learned how to be an intimidating guy and lead others. Eventually learning the "male" attributes of leading, courage, and being somewhat crazy fearless did pay off in coming out. I think that is why a lot of military trans women felt the courage and ability to come out after service. It gave them the confidence in themselves, and the knowledge of getting things done, to actually do something really hard and daunting. I am not sure if that is what they joined to get, or just a convenient after effect, but a lot of people who go into the military do seem to come out with a grasp of being able to do something they set their mind to which seems to be a lacking in a lot of people.

Flip side of that coin. I wanted to play baseball and play with toy cars, not dolls; makeup, hair and clothes didn't interest me (still don't). Most of my high school buddies were male, although I had girlfriends. The males were easier to comprehend. I had boyfriends, but I had plenty of male friends.

I was just a classic tomboy. I like being female. I'm just not girly-girl. If that's your thing, power to you, ladies. It's why I don't get why M-F trans always seem to go for the makeup, hair, and dresses. Bio-ladies aren't all like that.

It's fascinating that you decry stereotypes by...citing a stereotype.

I have quite a number of online trans women acquaintances, particularly on Facebook. To my observation there's a similar ration of jeans-and-tshirt-working-on-my-pickup trans women as their are very hyper-feminine sorts, likely more...and both are outnumbered by very "regular" women who do everything from manage software design teams to lean engineering teams for manufacturers to being a fire chief to driving a truck and so many more and they all dress as one might expect a woman in their position to dress.

Just maybe you should see some of us who don't spend their careers in front of a camera.

Also? to the extent that there's some tendency - for those who can't afford an expensive process of physical transition which achieve a sufficient degree of "passing" - providing visual cues via clothing, makeup, purses, and so forth - are literally efforts to lower the risk of being "clocked" and getting the shit beat out of us or worse.

If YOUR cis society didn't invest an inordinate amount of effort trying to drive us out of public life because you find us distasteful, we wouldn't need to invest so much effort into trying to escape your notice.

Maybe reflect on that, and what you might do about it.

Indeed it is, as I discovered when I listened to this interview with the author of a biography of him.

And now, I have to tell you something that'll have everyone giggling like a schoolkid when they read it. The name of the author? I shit you not, is Harry Sidebottom.

Really? Did you work it out yourself? Like, in your own head? Or did you talk to a counselor? My parents would never have gone for the weekly therapy thing. By the end of puberty, I’d nearly forgotten all about those gender questioning feelings.

First off, what is labelled as feminine is a social construct. It is putting the cart before the horse to say that those things define femininity, when it is compliance towards those things which means a feminine social style. So a trans woman does feminine things for the same reason you feel a pressure to do feminine things. It is showing the world that we are feminine a lot of times. I will agree that it does become a lot of performative BS at a certain point.

However, uit does put a person into the social angle of being a woman or man. Even if I am not passing, I am not walking into an autoparts store and picking up things like a man if I am dressed as a woman. You dressing in a more masculine style is not seen the same as me dressing in a more masculine style.

I will agree with @Jenee and others that I have fallen out of the more feminine style of behavior. This would have been radically different had the world been open to me being female at a young age. I probably would have less growth, and a more feminine body allowing me to get into more female oriented things I would have enjoyed. For instance I would have probably been a dancer rather than getting into paintball as much as I did.

At this point in my life choices have been made and things have been solidified far more than if I were making these choices as a person going through puberty. Why am I more masculine oriented now? Because I grew up that way, and I have decided that is how I want to be now. If people like Jenee do not see me as female, it really does not change things in my present situation, and I am not out for their reflective approval anymore.

You obviously see the pressures to act in conformance with femininity as a social construct to fullfill other people's judgments. That is the world we live in, and why trans women conform to what society determines as feminine. Eventually everyone conflicts in some way with societal gender expression because there are just things that are labelled as gendered which are not actually gendered.

Normally the reaction ofg misgendering someone whether or not they are trans or cis is a sexist attack made to intimidate and offend another person. Still, it is true that conformity to the social definition is a way trasns people follow what puts them into that pigeon hole. There is a reason pigeons live in a pigeon hole.

This is why I try to tell TERFs we cannot take your place because we follow what you have allowed society to define you as, but we can help to break that box because that box is sexist and stupid.

It does just amaze me how people like Jenee are at one end bothered because they suffer problems because they are not considered feminine enough, and on the other the first thing they do when someone bugs them as a girl with a dick is to do the same fucking thing to them. Does it bother her that I might get along with women more than she does? Probably, but I am also the first person who would point out that sort of thing is bullshit if Jenee were not sucking the stank off one of the biggest toxic male sexist assholes I have ever met, and making excuses for his shit male behavior. Basically, I have bigger and better battles to fight, but I also have some flame bombs I can toss her way for fun because I am me.

No counseling. Never really felt a need for it. I told my mom once, and she said "your dad used to feel that way sometimes too." It was never a particularly strong feeling, and at any rate, my parents were always fine with flexibility in gender expression, whether it was me playing with both toy cars and a dollhouse, my brother and I both growing our hair long in high school, or my sister's strong dislike of wearing dresses.

So — do the vast majority of kids who question their gender identity at some point end up being cisgender? I have no trouble believing that. But to argue that that means transgender kids should be forced back into their biologically assigned sex is like saying that, because most people who get occasional headaches get over them quickly, that means people who suffer from chronic migraines are just making it up.

Yea, I don’t even think I told either parent. But, both were …. See, I can’t even say they were okay with my “gender expression”. But, then again, I didn’t really “rebel” for a couple years. But, whether through indulgence or negligence, I was alllowed to express myself however I felt like.

Also, that was my original point. Even though many kids question or have gender confusion early and pre-pubescent, doesn’t mean some of those kids really are trans and that is the entire point of having the tests. The test weed out the kids that are “going through a phase”. If a child “passes” through all the tests and still feels gender confusion, then, and only then, do doctors continue with transitioning.

The ENTIRE point of the tests is to ensure kids that are just going through a phase, are not being transitioned so that “woke” people can make a point.

Also, these tests are not new. They have existed since before I went through puberty beginning around 1974. Anyone claiming “woke”, doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.

Hmmm...It (these days) is more acceptable for a female to be a tomboy (and even in my time, when roles were more sharply defined), than it ever has been (even today) for a male to be "girly." I wonder, if it was as acceptable for a fellow to be more feminine in behavior/dress, if the trans movement would have taken off as it has. If a man could act feminine in the same way as I can still act male and yet still not draw censure (other than from the most cloddish prudes and fuck'em), would things be different?

Maybe it's a male reaction to the narrow box of behavior such as women had to deal with say, pre-1975 (and a bit beyond, at times).

I could be off-base, but just a random thought.

My dad didn't do it so much, but my mom absolutely let me play with any kind of toys I wanted. I think she liked the softer side I wanted to let out. To me, toys are toys, and don't belong to any one gender.

Now see, if Mattel had been clever, they would have made Barbie clothes fit on Teela and Evil Lynn.

Out in the real world I know more trans men and non-binary individuals who were AFAB, so would be wary of anything like this that focuses too heavily on trans women's motivations only.

The problem with that is that men DID act that way and were automatically presumed to be gay which could get you arrested or worse.

If you go back and look at the first rather open blooming of what we today think of as trans people in Western society, it was in 1920's Germany and the transsexual or transvestite was a distinct thing in behavior and presentation than "twink" gay males.

The outside world looks in and sees basically all variations of the same thing (Jesse Watters showed his ass just the other day by saying so on Fox - which as noted in the previous post shows a sloppy disregard for trans men) but trans people will tell you very adamantly that gender identity is a whole separate thing from sexual orientation.

I will assure you that there would have been no level of "just a feminine guy" that would REMOTELY have addressed my dysphoria, however accepted it might have been - and I think my experience in that regard is, not quite universal but the overwhelming majority.
Likewise, I can point you to later transitioning trans men who were perfectly accepted living as butch lesbians but still miserable until they transitioned.

I would like to say that gender dysphoria is not gender questioning. There was no question at all as far as I and many are concerned. Your body does not align with your gender identity. There was never any doubt in me. My body was just the wrong gender. It was not I was wondering what it was like to be a girl. It was not life would be easier as a girl. It is not even a preference.

The reason people end up muddling around with it is because it is a feeling you really would not understand until you are there. There is something not right, and it is within your body. Most people do not feel this way because they align properly. If tomorrow you were suddenly the wrong gender you would feel it. It is simply not something anyone can show you because we cannot change your body.

It is also obvious to me that some people feel it much more strongly than others. It does not go away because it is who you are. From my first memories I should have been a girl. No one put that in my head. It was not even something I wanted to be.

This idea that I was a fucking toddler and I just wanted to be a girl is a load of crap. This was a fucking horror. I am compelled to do this. I did not want to go stealing my sister's and mom's clothing. I had to express it or else I went fucking more crazy than you know. It is compulsive. By compulsive it is not something you can just do without. Believe me, I and many others have tried. trans women have ripped their dicks off because no one else would do it.

It is not really about the dick either as I feel it. The dick is just a reminder you are in the wrong body. Yes, some people get used to it like I have, but really the expression is important. I don't even really want to be treated like a woman in society a lot of times because society is fucking sexist and can be shitty to women. I need to do things as one.

There is a difference between wanting to break out of the confinements of gender, and being gender dysphoric. This is why there ends up being more terms like gender queer, tomboys, drag queens, and other terms like that.

Don't get me wrong. Everyone has their gender feelings, and I love people who break out of the gender stereotype and are themselves. I can do that too, while expressing myself as female, as long as I am looking towards myself for my comfort. My gender dysphoria is within me, and it is not unhappiness with having to abide by male stereotypes. It is about wanting to express myself as a woman.

I know that seems like a tiny insignificant nuance, but it is the best I can describe it. I really do not mind doing traditionally masculine things. It is just that when I do them I want to do them as me being a woman.

I get to the top of the mountain and have something be a success in my life, but it is like it is not me. I did it as a man, so it was really just a performance. It is really just acting. I am really not me. It is odd that I really have come to not really care much about passing anymore because I have found that I need to feel like a fgirl when doing things, and I was not getting that when looking to other people to reflect that to me. Others may get that in society's reflection towards them, which is why they go further to pass and abide by societal gender norms of their gender. I am just different in that way because I really need myself to feel it rather than anyone else, and I guess I do not get much of my self image from how others see me. I am not being judgmental here either as it might be a lot easier to feel female because other people see you as female if you have the right body type or start at a young enough age.