The United States Military = Welfare?

Wow something we can agree on.

I'm not sure that it is a widespread opinion. I've heard maybe two or three people make the comment over the past few years.

What more would you like on it? You looking for a tap dance, or some sort of performance? I'm afraid I can't moonwalk.

I don't think it's really welfare, either.

But how can you not call them mercenaries who join thinking that the military will pay for their college? Or those who join to become citizens? Or who just can't find themselves a job without one being handed to them by the government?

And those other reasons people like to think would be higher on the list of priorities - duty, defence, honor, etc. - what are they doing there in the first place? Don't they have access to history books - ones not handed out by government schools?

Given the shit they have to put up with while in basic training and having to do whatever is ordered to them by the government and etc., I'm not sure how anyone can conclude anything is being handed to someone who is in the military. Also I find the view that people who choose to enlist in the military are doing so because they can't find themselves a job.

What history books might those be that you are thinking of?

Want to complete the sentence? Because that's exactly why I joined the Navy.

That was solely the reason for you choosing to enlist?

If I could have gotten into college, I would have most definitely done that. I wasn't about to look for the sort of McJob that you can get WITHOUT college, so yeah, military it was.

Nothing wrong with that. I guess I just have a problem with people making what I view to be huge generalizations like that. I have no doubt that there are folks out there that have enlisted because they feel the way you did. But, there are others out there who join for other reasons. I've known people who have joined the Marines because they really liked the way the dress uniforms look on TV in their ads.

Come on man. Enough with the bullshit already!

Okay do you plan on knocking off the bullshit anytime soon Mewet?

What bullshit???

Dude that seriously happens.

The Marines don't necessarily attract the brightest.

Clearly KIRK tried to enlist and didn't make the cut...

Full medical for you and your family. Dental, Orthodontics, Optomotry, everything. Hell you're wife can even get a boob job if she says it effects her self esteem.

Then you get the Commissary. In comparisions with regional groceries, it's 20% cheaper on all goods, 40% on meats. PX is about 5-10% cheaper. No tax on either.

Gas goes for about .15 less than off post.

'Hops' are free for you and family (to any base in the world), $33 a person if it is a government chartered private airliner.

Vacations are also cheaper. For me, a night in a suite (kitchen, sitting area) is $55 a night no tax. Same price for a cabin out on American Lake. Renting an RV is $95 a day, a 22' boot $25.

Ranges are free on Saturday and Sunday. Guests pay $3. Ammo is about 25% cheaper than Walmart.

Free movies at the theater. Free trips for both Singles (BOSS) and families MWR/Chaplin's to area attractions. I'm not just talking about the busses to Seattle every weekend, but things like weekends in Olympia NP, or ski trips during winter.

Retirement is at 20 years. You get 1/2 of your pay for the rest of your life. If I understand it correctly for every year you stay in over 20 you get 2.5% with a maximum of %75.

Plus at retirement you keep all the benefits listed above.

Oh yeah, and the government matches my 5% with 4% of their money into my TSP (Government 401K).

Well me, I wouldn't admit I know someone that stupid. And he says he knows a few. Dang!!!

Yes, well you are far too busy sitting with your homies threatening people about not visiting NYC.

I don't think it is that stupid at all.

Someone who picks a job b/c of uniform obviously has nothing driving them when it comes to a job or career. Nothing they want to do.


I'd much rather (and it's much smarter) for such a person to join a Service and make something of their lives than sit around being a pothead/welfare bum/criminal.

Ah, so something that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic itself?

I'm sure Cass thanks you for coming to her defense. Why are you in the thread if you do not find it interesting?

Bock, never said that there is a constitutional requirement to defend the world. He did speak to the constitutional requirement for defending the US. Unfortunately, between the UN, the Congress and an assortment of other pressures, the US ends up becoming the police to the world. That is a simple reality to the situation.

I think the most recent area that comes to mind is Darfur. Fortunately we didn't really do anything on that one.

Possibly, but that is an entirely separate topic completely.

Wrong....they CAN find jobs, but maybe they want dependable, steady jobs with better pay.

Now this really grinds my gears: "Marines aren't known for attracting the brightest."

WTF? THe standards for the Marines are extremely high.
Marine recruiters met with my son, and I was there at the time.
If you're a high-school dropout, or have a criminal record, just hit the road.
They don't pass out enlistment waivers like candy.

I haven't met people who joined over the uniform (altough the dress uniforms are awesome IMHO ) but I have met people who were all gung-ho to join the Marines. And not because they needed a job.

The Marines have a mystique about them that you don't really see with the other services (no offense to those others of course).

That too help fuels the mystique of the Marines. You know if you are a Marine you've done something special.

There is definitely an attitude that is unique to the Marines that doesn't seem to be in the other branches of the service.

Well I won't speak for the military but I'll give you a law enforcement from my neck of the woods.

Retirement = 25 years (however if the Firefighters get theirs to 20 years ours will soon follow)

Eighty percent of the average of our top five years on the job. If I pull in $120000 average over five years I'll get $96000 a year. It is possible to do that but you need a lot of overtime and/or rank. There are CO1's out there who make over $150000 a year but they have no life except work. My goal is too push up to Sergeant rank and then roll in the overtime. There are a handful of people who have made over $200000 a year. (Firefighter may get theirs to 85% which means we'd get it)

We also have a deferred comp program. You can tell the agency to pull out X amount or percent from your check each pay period. This money will then be invested in what you want with money funds. The money is taken before taxes are taken so it lowers your tax burden per paycheck. Over 25 years this can make you a shit load of extra money. Lot's of officers tell rookies to do it.

Then we have the DROP program. When you reach retirement you don't retire. You work an additional five years. The money in your retirement account sits there accumulating interest and additional retirement funds from my agency. (also accumulating interest)

There are officers who've retired with $1-2 million dollars in their retirement accounts.