Why do we have troops in Japan?

Not trying to establish credentials, just trying to figure out what planet you served on.

To EP

You are aware that the restrictions were put in place AFTER these sailors and marines did stupid shit and not before, right?

You really do need to give this whole thing up, you're wrong...it's not some evil upper ranks keeping the poor junior guys down. It's junior guys reaping what they sow.

Did you spend a lot of time in trouble? Is that how you delt with it? You blamed everyone but poor little oppressed EP?

Apparently earth, unlike you?

I'm not saying the things you've mentioned never happened, but you're acting like it's everywhere. Like your claims of all these black market transactions. DECA, who runs the military commissary system are pretty much nazis when it comes to who can make purchases through them, they don't even allow guests in the stores. So to act like there is widespread foreign nationals buying there and reselling is silly.

So you were stationed in Korea then? And you had no knowledge of the ins-and-outs of how all this works? That must have been one huge rock you were under. Hey, better you than me. Maybe I hung out with the wrong crowd or something.

To EP, since quotes always fuck up when responding by phone:

All armed forces within Japan are underthe curfew whether on leave or not. Obvious, Iif they're on leave in the U S, no one cares.

Still, Archangel has a point about people acting like screw ups, although I credit part of that to leadership trying to save face and sweep problems under the rug, then go to the extreme opposite once something major happens. My last CO was exceedingly lenient. In 20 Captain's masts, only two or three got separated and no one got pay cuts. OHis replacement otoh, the very minimum you're leaving with is half month pay and 45 days.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I will say I'm enjoying something that, while not unique to WF, is certainly ingrained in its culture, namely the tendency of people who don't know what they're talking about to think they can shout down people who do.

We see it in Federal Farmer's attempt to dismiss Elwood's perspective in Castle's "Cliven Bundy is my HE-ro " thread, and now here.

Anna: "I'm active military, and you're wrong!"

oldfella and EP:

Archangel: "I've got over 20 years in, and you're wrong!"

oldfella and EP:

Ok, now we absolutely have to rename that smiley : castle :. It mirrors his personality too perfectly for words.

: castle : is already assigned:

:castle:

[edit]
Oops, it's : johncastle : that is assigned!

:johncastle:

That one should've been : muaddib : as much as he used to pull that one up....

:archangel:

So everyone there on the base was a screw up? In trouble? That always depends on who your boss is. They can get you for anything if they want to. Just depends on how hard they tighten the screws. No one is perfect. Sounds like you were a wannabe officer. You certainly have the superiority complex for it.

And you sound like a junior enlisted screwup who blames everyone else for problems you bring upon yourself.

And you're still babbling about things you have no first hand knowledge of.

you just latched onto a story you heard from a friend

I mean you heard from some guy

I mean you read in Stars & Stripes

I mean somewhere.

The fact of the matter is, the Japanese can kick us out if we fuck out. The Marines in Oki have already been given their eviction notice and are being sent to Guam, and the same can happen to the whole nearly 20 ship fleet. And that will really put a kink in things when Korea and China pop off and it takes us almost a week or more to get there.

And having actually lived there, I can say it sucks to deal with cutting an evening short to get on base before the liberty buddy requirement and off the streets by 2300, but so would having to be at sea longer because Guam is as close to Korea as we're allowed to be stationed.

Sounds like a few too many guys like Enlisted Person and Oldfella screwed things up for everybody else. Thanks a lot, fuckers! You had your thoughtless fun, so that Anna could suffer.

Threads like this make me miss Dayton's military expertise.

I definitely get the impression that EP was the kind of soldier that loved being E3 so much he made it three times.

Sent from my RM-927_nam_vzw_100 using Tapatalk

True, if @Dayton3 were to weigh in, we might get some valuable insight.

So exactly what shenanigans did I pull to make our military look bad to the locals? Ever consider that just maybe most of my indiscretions were involving Americans?
The only thing that could possibly be considered threatening to the locals was my driving - I had no concept of following any traffic laws. But anyone who's ever been there knows the locals don't either.

And because of you, Anna wasn't allowed to drive off base.

Two different countries. Generally in Korea only the college kids don't want Americans there, so most people are at least tolerant + understand why we are there, and that we're a pretty good alternative to artillery raining down from NK.
Yes a few old school bars are going up in flames in Itaewon, but the wiring is old so I think that's the reason for most of it.

Of course, the main reason our forces are in Japan is the pacifist treaty the last Shogun (fella named MacArthur you might have heard of him) forced on them after the war. Japan benefited hugely from not having to support a massive military-industrial complex. We and the rest of Asia benefited from not having to worry about a militaristic Japan trying to build another empire. The right-wing militarists are still there, but thanks to MacArther we haven't had to fight them again and hopefully can count on them to be part of our team in offsetting China and N. Korea.

I find it so amazing that so many people think it's ok to punish a whole group of people for the actions of a few. It kind of smacks of bigotry. I mean someone decides to join the military and so they should be punished? The military is all about rules and regulations. Why not come down hard on those who break the rules, just like they do in very other country we have people stationed in? We had fuckups in Englad too, but everybody didn't get punished for it. They sent them to the country club. I am sure they had something like that in the navy too.

Agree with EP. Up until the day I retired, I never believed in group punishment and never dished it out. Everyone is an individual. You sign that contract, not your buddy and you. That said, if you the individual fuck up then the powers that be need to come down on you like a ton of bricks if need be. That said part 2, NCO's still need to defend their subordinate soldiers from unfair punishment from officers. If you aren't ready to "man up" and play defense attorney you need to get out of the military. When your soldiers get in serious (could get kicked out) trouble your CO gets all prosecutor, so you need to get all defender or they get railroaded. You need to negotiate their charges down as far as you can. That's really what I miss most about being in the military.

I had to do that old fella. One of my guys dipped snuff and was always clean about it or I would have made his life hell. Anyways, a water fountain stopped up and they cleaned it out and found grounds in it and they were going to take at least one stripe from one of mine. I pushed the issue to have the stuff analyzed and it was coffee grounds. It was the commander's secretary washing out a coffee put in it. I pushed to have the same punishment put on her. The article 15 was dropped. I pushed the issue because that bitch was going to let my guy hang for that shit. I fell from grace because the area defense council was a decent sort and a real officer and got the IG involved.

In Germany my witch of a commander threatened to AR15 one of my troops over something SHE fucked up! Let me preach on:
my troop needed to register a car (or some such) and told our First Sergeant that he really, really needed to handle this right away because the Germans and the US Army were on his ass. However, we needed to go on field exercises in another part of Germany. Our First Sergeant told him that he'd cover for him, with plan B being bring the guy back early to handle his business. The First Sergeant was a stand-up guy, so there were no worries. However......

The field exercises are winding down and we have more than enough people to handle the air traffic - which was non-existent anyway, because the Germans shut down our exercises.
So I call the Commander back at our post and tell her I'm sending everyone back since the trip was a bust. I was the NCOIC of the trip. She tells me no - to come back on schedule. I remind her that my soldier has a legal matter and that a couple of us drove their privately owned vehicles anyway, so we can shuttle him back easy as pie. She refuses to budge.

So we all come back on Friday afternoon. The offices he needs to do business with close around 4:00. My witch commander asks me why my troop never handled his business before he left on the exercises. I explained that he was trying to, The Germans were dragging their feet (big fucking surprise there) and the the First Sergeant agreed to let me handle getting him back to handle it, or failing that he himself would talk with the Germans. I also reminded her that I tried to get him back early, but she refused my request.

Her answer was "well The First Sergeant isn't in charge now...I am! He's out of his office right now. If he doesn't handle this by the deadline of today, I will Article 15 him!"

Let's recap - at the time we rolled out for our exercises, witchypoo wasn't at work, thus the First Sergeant was indeed in complete control. What he said was gospel. We come back, he's not physically there for me to ask WTF is going on, so in her eyes anything he said is null and void. Also I offered to bring him back to rectify the problem, and she refused.

So my soldier took off with a quickness to hopefully get his business done, while I met with my boss, an E-7 who was a good "people person". She was a stand-up guy/gal we trusted.
I told her that if the witch commander even thinks about giving him an AR-15 that I would bounce my 20 years in the military up against her 6 years (officer or not) any fucking time. I'll get every fucking senior NCO on my side and tear her a new one. My boss conveyed the message and the witch never said another word about it again.

Guess you guys missed the part of Patton's speech where he said "An army eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality crap is a load of horse dung." A soldier, sailor or marine who can't think about anything other than having a good time and doing whatever the fuck they feel like is a weak link.

Well allow me to retort - the military folk who have a good time and do what the fuck they feel (within limits) are generally the go-to guys that get the job done versus worrying about their careers.
The weakest links turn out to be the cover-my-ass at all costs "by the book" weasels for the most part. You can be part of a team but still be an individual - it's called compartmentalization, and the best members learn to master it.

Oh what a load of horseshit.

EP and oldfella, 2 peas in a pod. When they get into trouble it's everyone elses fault but their own. I hate to break it to you, but 99% of the times when these "individuals" are out doing things that will get them into trouble, guess what, they are surrounded by their fellow soldiers/sailors who are egging them on or at least not stopping them. The chief, Sgt, Lt, can't be there the whole time, your "buddies" are.

The more you two talk the more you solidify my opinion that you were the type that was mostly worried about going out and getting shitfaced and every night making an ass out of yourself while trying to fuck everything in the country in a skirt.

It may come as a shock to you two, but not everyone around you appreciates you making them look bad.

Stereotypical Americans.

P.S. The people who were smart enough to be the "goto guys", were in my experience the ones smart enough not to go be dipshits in town and get into trouble.

Sorry to burst your bubble about yourselves.

You mean like harassing all people on bicycles because you saw one run a red light once?

You mean like hearing one stupid liberal (or one stupid conservative) and painting the rest with the same brush?