It's HIGH TIME the 2nd Amendment was REPEALED. Sorry Gunforge ,your guns must be TAKEN AWAY from you

Amendment 2.5- "A 'well regulated militia' is the Army National Guard. Join that, Gravy Seals. The end".

It’s not the end, though. That argument has been a sticky point for … probably 30 years. If it was the end, there wouldn’t still be discussions.

I agree when it comes to automated weapons, but I’m also not firmly anti-personal gun use.

Because it isn't carved into the constitution.
Yet.

Originalists- "well, the constitution says...that amendments count, and the amendment says this. Fuuuuck!! ".

Pragmatists- Exactly. Now go crawl into a dumpster, and never come out.

Originalists-

Pragmatists- No, you'r e not even allowed to cry. Hold it in.

Originalists- ....

Your “witty” conversations aside, I believe you have also fallen for propaganda. Most people who own guns are not the nutcases you see on tv. I grew up in a house with many guns. We (the children) knew they were there, they were out in the open - well, an open faced locked cabinet. The cabinets was locked because my parents were …. negligent at best. didn’t want to deal with kids being kids AND having guns.

Anyway, they’re just a tool. Just like hammers and wrenches and cherry pickers and any other tool you might find in a tool shed.

No, they aren't.

Yea. They are.

Smacks head. Of course! I forgot what a useful tool they are to kill someone. Much better than an awl.

That's because they're awlful.


/me runs

I have fucked up and hurt myself with hammers and wrenches and never needed an emergency room.

Guns are not tools like hammers and wrenches you ignorant slut. A gun is only a tool to make killing easier. It does not build things. It does not loosen things. It just blasts little holes in things. It is a piss poor tool for anything other than injuring a person or animal at a distance.

This is why you do not need them around as tools. Fucking moron.

Well, no, they're not a tool. They're weapons. Their design and primary function is for bodily injury. That makes them a weapon.
For instance, a kitchen knife is a tool. A sword is a weapon.
I have no problem with people owning guns. But let's not obfuscate the issue with rhetorical nonsequitors. Especially since that type of rhetoric is most often used by rabid anti-gun legislation activists.

Look, the founder's vision of making an army out of LARPers was really cute, but by the time of the war of 1812, even they were like "yeah, we need a real fuckin' army".

Guns are tools. They become weapons when one chooses to use it to injure another. Most midwesterners have guns and use them, daily, as tools. My aunt and my mother in law, both live alone, both have multiple guns for multiple uses.

I’m all in favor of gun control laws and not allowing certain people access to them. But, as you said, let’s not obfuscate. Guns are tools. it’s people who make them weapons. And do not even try to mistrust that as ‘guns don’t kill, people kill” because in my opinion, that is absolutely the fucking stupidest goddamn argument I’ve ever heard and the weakest bs for anti-gun control. Idiots use that line.

But, much like splitting the atom, it took a specific kind of human to turn it into a weapon.

I'm a Midwest boy myself, actually (Indianapolis), and my wife's family is from Arizona. I know how most responsible people deal with guns. That's fine.
We can agree to disagree on the "tool" designation as long as you're not trying to use that to argue against more stringent laws.

A gun is a useless lump until pointed at something you want dead.

You could get away with a definition of "machine" but don't try to make it "just like a car."

YOu’ve proven you are as useless to discuss anything as FF. You’re only here for the drama. I’ve no idea why you bother popping into serious discussions.

However, I’ll throw you a bone.

No, a gun is not a useless lump until …., not anymore so than any other tool humans use to do a specific job. An ax is a tool. Most use them for chopping wood, but some do use them when attacking another human.

The argument is not that guns cannot kill. The argument is that they kill more efficiently than other tools.

I’m all about more stringent gun laws.

Why do you think we need more stringent gun laws?

Why? Because I have a functioning brain.

Why don’t you think we need more stringent gun laws? Do you not have a functioning brain?

Nice non answer.

I’m confused.
Are you saying that you think the current laws we have are sufficient?

How about: A friend of mind whose unarmed son was shot dead after cutting someone off in traffic? That person got off, by the way. Hooray for Stand Your Ground.
Or how about the friends and students at Stoneman Douglas HS, where I've worked, who were gunned down like dogs?
How about the monthly gun shows where I live, with no regulations on who's buying what?
Or on a macro level, that we're the country with the highest per capita gun deaths in the civilized world, including countries with higher per capital gun ownership?

How about you cut the bullshit with your out of context anecdotes?

For all anyone knows, every one of those shootings could be perfectly justified.

For that old "per capita" line, it is dishonest to lump in legitimate self defense when you are asserting something negative. A dead rapist/mugger/burglar is a GOOD thing. It argues in FAVOR of civilian gun ownership.

You're absolutely right. The Parkland School Shooting may have been justified.

How silly of me.

I'll just leave this here...

Even if you’re not going to take into consideration the outliers (murderers) and statistics, you can’t deny our gun laws favor the shooter and further victimize the victims.

That depends on the state, doesn't it? Some states are too restrictive some are not restrictive enough. I think my state is sufficient.

I wasn't aware annecdotes were allowed now. Where's the usual suspects to call this dude out? Do these numbers exclude suicides or gang violence?

Source?

Do you think it should depend on the state? We’re one country. Why should something be legal in one state and not another?

Which states do you think are too restrictive? And why?
Which states do you think are not restrictive enough? And why?

.....Reality?
Seriously, though, Pew Research Center via NPR.
But honestly, does it matter? It's not like these numbers are contested anywhere. I'd challenge you to find a study that doesn't portray the USA as a dangerous murderworld.

As for the laws in individual states...

I'll just leave this here as well...

Scratch the surface of those gun death statistics, and you'll find a majority of them are from suicides. Right behind them? Honest-to-God murder.
Even if we conceded that dead burglars et al. are a good thing (Which I do not), it's such a miniscule drop in the bucket of American gun deaths it isn't even worth acknowledging.