2024 General Election Thread

Yeah, statues are history, but Ken Burns, not so much since he warned against Trump in a commencement speech.
And FF wonders why I distrust anything with the slightest drop of right-wing in it.

LOL, there isn't another country in the world that reveres the losing side of its civil wars.

Nonsense. Civil wars are such that the protagonists are often feted by their supporters long after they've been defeated. You'll find this in England, Ireland, China, Spain and elsewhere in various forms.
The Confederates are more the rule than the exception.

Supporters is one thing. Do those governments name schools after leaders of failed revolutions? Do they build monuments to generals that rose up in arms against them?
I've never seen an example of that, but if I'm wrong I'd love to know.

The monarchy lost the English Civil War and have more than just monuments dedicated to them. The losing side in the Irish Civil War dominated our politics for most of the 20th century - there are monuments for those people. The winners of the Spanish civil war are the ones most detested there and there's a debate about removing their monuments. (The losers ones are mostly uncontroversial.)
The divisions that motivate civil wars rarely disappear after the fighting stops. Where you find exceptions they tend to be totalitarian states.

“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.” This is the goal of the left, this is why they’re hell bent on destroying our history. They want to rewrite it in their name so they can control future generations.

Jesus Christ.

For the millionth time, ceasing to celebrate evil is not the same as destroying history.

Or do you think that these photos depict horrible travesties perpetrated by people bent on rewriting history and controlling future generations?

Show me on the doll where the statue hurt you?

It’s like every morning you get the DNC talking points memo and are told to repeat them.

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Where’s that irony meter icon?

It’s right there.

It says something that you would revere the people fighting to keep slavery intact.
Dress it up however you want, but that's what they were fighting for. That's why they seceded. Any other issues are ancillary.
Hitler was actually a good artist, but I wouldn't hang his paintings on my wall.

I don’t revere them, though I think Lee and Stonewall Jackson were good tacticians. You don’t get to dictate what they were fighting for when we have what they were fighting for in their own words.

So, you just accept that what they are saying is their true feelings?

England is a bit different, since Cromwell WON, and actually instituted lasting changes in British government as head of state. Even as such, monuments to him are pretty controversial in England, ESPECIALLY with the Irish and the monarchy.
I'd argue that the Irish Civil War isn't actually resolved, considering the existed of Northern Ireland and the origins of its main political parties.
As for Spain, the winner became the loser after Franco died and the monarchy / republic was restored. And while some of them still revere those "glory days", it is now literally illegal to exalt or commemorate Franco.
The divisions rarely disappear, yes, but I've not seen a country that has ever revered a loser that never held power.

It doesn't matter what they said.
What they did is what counts. They fought to defend a regime that enforced slavery, rape, and torture.
Everything else is just prevaricating to avoid that uncomfortable truth.

Again, Hitler was a great tactician (until he wasn't). Not Gonna build a monument to his "military prowess" in Berlin.

I guess I could try an Ouija board.

I’m just wondering what your criteria is for taking someone at their word.

You take trump at his word, but not Biden
You take MTG at her word but not AOC.

What is it in a person’s speech or body language that says ‘this one’ is telling the truth, but ‘that one’ is lying?

I don't need a memo to know that monuments to totalitarian regimes that oppress their people are often torn down when those regimes are overthrown.

I only need a working knowledge of history.

You know, that thing you supposedly studied.

In the case of Saddam's statue, everyone in my generation — a group that I believe includes you — remembers that moment. Aside from Saddam's capture and death, it's probably the most iconic image of the entire war. (Well, that and Bush on the flight deck with the "Mission Accomplished" sign.)

So, do those photos depict horrible travesties perpetrated by people bent on rewriting history and controlling future generations?

If you can ever get it to stop saying "Disappointed" over and over.

I don’t believe I’ve said that I don’t believe AOC and I don’t think I’ve said I believe everything Trump says. As for Biden, he’s a known liar who has been fact checked to his face and still continues to lie.

So...just like every other politician ever?

You often need a reminder that the Democratic Party is the party that started the civil war, the party of slavery, the party of the Klan, the party that was against the civil rights movement and now the party of Marxists.

And when the Democrats moved away from that and embraced civil rights the Republicans swooped in to replace them.

Well! I guess I'd better vote for the toxic narcissist, rapist, crook, and traitor!

He keeps being told this, and he hits the "reset" button anyway.
He's not one to let facts get in the way of "owning the libs".

You weren't talking about Cromwell. You referred to the losing side. That was the monarchy. They later got re-instated albeit with their absolutism restricted. And have many monuments, to say the least.

The establishment of Northern Ireland was not a principle reason for the Irish Civil War, despite what some might claim. The main reason was the status of Ireland as a dominion of the British Empire. That has been resolved. And there are all kinds of statues and other things in all kinds of places to remember people who fought on both sides.

Hence, once again, the actual loser in the war has lots of monuments.

A significant qualification of your original statement. But there are exceptions to that too. Russia has monuments commemorating Kornilov. Germany has some of Rosa Luxemborg and Karl Liebknecht. Yes, the American situation has its quirks. But they all do. It's not some wild divergence from the rest of the world.

It was Democrat governors who stood in front of schools to block black students, not Republicans.

Cowpens, SC. There’s a monument to fallen British soldiers who died during the Revolutionary War. There’s also one in Connecticut.

Political realignment. Are you a history major?