Military coup in Bolivia

Oh, I've no doubt there's valid reason to suspect foul play there, but on the other hand I'm not inclined to see the events of the week as being a victory for democracy, the Bolivian people or the world in general.

Whether you support this guy or not (I'm unsure really, he seems to have done a great deal of good which can't be overlooked) the end result of this "rightful resistance", against a "dictator" who seemed to act quite unlike my perception of the word, is a country on the verge of civil war, an unelected interim leader with emergency powers, a cabinet which specifically and intentionally omits representation for 70% of the population, overt threats of ethnic cleansing, potentially total economic collapse, violence in the streets and a body count which is mounting on a daily basis.

Failure to point that out when people are praising the situation as a positive step against the evils of socialism whilst condemning the far milder actions of the authorities in Hong Kong as "brutal oppression" would be remiss to say the least.

Especially as he seems to still be pretty popular with "the people" who supposedly resisted him.

Bolivian Military No Longer Responsible For Civilian Deaths At Protests

Source (Spanish): https://www.clarin.com/mundo/bolivi...nal-fuerzas-armadas-protestas_0_AwNOgZKd.html
Source (English Translation): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.clarin.com/mundo/bolivia-decreto-jeanine-anez-quitarle-responsabilidad-penal-fuerzas-armadas-protestas_0_AwNOgZKd.html[/B]

If you think I'm declaring "victory" here, whatever that means, then I'm quite disappointed about the perception you apparently have of me. Nor, for that matter, have I accused the US of a coup (that was John). There is no victory here, not for anyone, and it isn't about being left or right.

Drawing attention to the consequences of a failure as a way of illustrating that failure is exactly what it is does not bring me any pleasure, but if it makes people a little less quick to celebrate "victories for democracy" in the future then I'm not going to apologise.

If you believe there will be a free, fair and uncontested election according to the Bolivian Constitution without further violence and the country will move forward into a peaceful and stable future then I admire your optimism, but don't share it.

A victory here would have been a successful legal or constitutional challenge to Morales, or even a failed one which at least achieved an outcome which various parties could accept.

Not this.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...-crisis-death-toll-rises-191118021548919.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50455581

But hey, at least they dodged socialism.

New Bolivian government moves to arrest members of MAS, which forms 2/3 of the legislature.

For what it's worth, while I'm including the U.S. and its past meddling in South American (and just about everywhere else) affairs, part of the fuel for the notion that the U.S. was involved in this coup, on some level, comes from here:
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news...itary-and-US-in-Coup-Plans-20191105-0001.html

It's audio recordings of conversations between opposition leaders in contact with Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, and Bob Menendez on the benefits of overturning Morales government.

Oh good, I'd hate to think they were still living in a dictatorship.

Right from Rick’s Hero Chavez’s playbook.

So you'd seriously claim that what we are seeing is in some sense justified by election fraud?

And also completely untrue, but don't let that stop anyone!

Are you saying election fraud is acceptable?

No.

Are you saying the suspicion of it is just cause for what we are seeing?

There has been no evidence of any election fraud presented by anyone. There was a pause in updating the quick count tallies, which aren't even the official results. The OAS declared this as suspicious because when the updates resumed, Morales' lead had grown. But that was entirely consistent with the fact that the votes counted were in rural regions that are overwhelmingly in favour of him.

However irregular that might be and deserving of investigation, it does not support declarations of fraud. Let alone dictatorship.

Especially dictatorship announced on the grounds of getting rid of a....dictator.

It's really ironic the lengths people will go to to twist and spin the fact it wasn't the socialist who was the dictator here.

It wasn't the socialist killing people in the streets.

It wasn't the socialist declaring themselves an unelected leader.

It wasn't the socialist using emergency powers to engage in ethnic cleansing.

It wasn't the socialist giving blanket authorisation to the security services to use lethal force on civilians.

It IS, however, happening as a result of the uprising people were very quick to cheer for and at the hands of the emergency administration Trump is so eager to endorse as heralding progress.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/19/bolivia-clashes-police-army-break-fuel-blockade

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/20/bolivia-el-alto-violence-death-protest

https://www.rt.com/news/474039-pompeo-bolivia-officials-step-down/

Very interesting thread from Adam 'Scrabble' on twitter (very reliable guy) - unlike most of his deeper threads, this one has no links so reading it is a matter minutes instead of hours.

So China was profiting off Bolivia and you weren't?

Therefore this is a positive step?

Globalization of economies often screws over smaller countries, news at 11.

It's almost as though we've seen all this before.

You guys are warped.

How so?

In that @Tuttle has snorted so much kool aid powder his vision has been skewed and you are warping and melting before his eyes.

Funnily enough I don't like seeing people whose lives seemed secure and stable only a few weeks ago being dispossessed, dehumanised and killed in the streets. Apparently that's warped though because there loss is his gain.

I agree that does not seem to be a warped perspective. I would consider the obvious happiness and support for the abuse and harassment of people you have never met who have done no harm to others as a sadistic and negative trait that might be referred to as warped or fucked up, but obviously people like @Tuttle have different standards and find torture and harassment of certain types of people to be enjoyable to them.

They’re Killing Us Like Dogs: A Massacre in Bolivia and a Plea for Help

Source: http://orinocotribune.com/theyre-killing-us-like-dogs-a-massacre-in-bolivia-and-a-plea-for-help

Posting the whole article since the website keeps going down.

@Tuttle believes we are "warped" for not celebrating this.

Churches co opted as mass morgues you say?

Hundreds of family members desperate to see the bodies of their loved ones?

Morales wasn't ousted in a "coup" but he and his family had death threats and his sisters' house was burned down?

What isn't there to celebrate here?