What, no NFL thread? Well let me start...

And just like Wilson set the record for most wins after first two seasons, he now has most wins after first three seasons. Throw in 2 Division Titles, an Conference Title and a Super Bowl in those three years (with hopefully another Conference Title and Super Bowl!) and I'll ask something I asked earlier in the season, what will it take for people to consider him elite?

Reverse question for our D. How can anyone not consider this defense one of the best of all time?

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-sea.../these-seahawks-may-be-better-than-a-year-ago

Post #52.

>EDITED< to ask where you're hearing all the Wilson-bashing? He's highly regarded in everything I read or see about him.

Could be just me, but I see a lot 'game manager' and other similar descriptions compared to elite or other similar.

More of a lack of recognition that people actually saying 'he's not elite'.

And odds are out:
Team Odds
Seahawks 13/5
Patriots 11/4
Packers 11/2
Broncos 13/2
Cowboys 8/1
Steelers 16/1
Lions 22/1
Colts 25/1
Bengals 33/1
Cardinals 50/1
Ravens 75/1
Panthers 75/1


http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/28/7458749/nfl-playoff-odds-2015-seahawks-patriots-super-bowl

Well, the Seahawks have definitely earned their place this year.

I don't think the Cardinals have a realistic chance in the playoffs. They are going to be bounced in their first game, for sure.

Time to support the Packers.

EDIT TO ADD: I mean time to support the Packers over the Cardinals. I always support both teams since I have roots both here and there.

The Cardinals are a decent QB away from being a contender. The Rams just got to get their shit together. Thank God the whiners got rid of Harbaugh or the NFC West would be a total nightmare moving forward. Even with them shooting themselves in the foot I think it will be one of the harder conference for the next couple of years.

Cards make it 10 straight.

I think it's just you.

With few exceptions, no quarterback gets labeled "elite" until they've put in a little time. The only one that got that label hung on him early on that I can recall in recent memory is Brady and I think a lot of that had to do with the circumstances of his first year as a starter.

And as I keep repeating longevity has a lot to do with it. There have been loads of promising young quarterbacks who've shown great potential early in their careers only to flame out. Vince Young comes immediately to mind and RGIII is likely headed that way as well.

Wilson is undersized and doesn't have gaudy passing numbers. He's not "elite" by traditional measures, but who cares? He's winning and that's all that matters.

The other issue against Wilson is that much of the success is attributed to defense. How does he perform when he can't trust the defense to hold down the opponent's score? Not saying he isn't good, but he hasn't been tested in some of the ways that are required when making that elite case. Give him a few more years, and we'll likely see him come up big without the defensive assist. Then the label will start to appear more often.

WILSON SUCKS! HE'S ABOUT ELITE AS JAY CUTLER!

But how does he compare to Tebow?

WOW Bengals are only 33 to 1.. I'd have said 500 to 1, and I am a fan!

Fuck you Seattle!

So Carolina and Baltimore lost. Dallas is the last hope for the South.

Didn"t watch the NFC game, but the Pats and Ravens put on a hell of a show. I'm looking forward to an easier time next week -- neither Denver or Indianapolis match up nearly as well with the Pats as does Baltimore.

Wilson's third-down magic too much for Carolina
January, 11, 2015
By Terry Blount | ESPN.com

SEATTLE -- Going 8-for-8 on third down throws, including three touchdowns, isn't half bad for a game manager.
...
Wilson was 15-of-22 passing overall for 268 yards, but 199 of those yards came on his third-down throws. He had a passer rating of 149.2. To give that some perspective, it's the fifth-highest rating in NFL postseason history.

Wilson now has multiple completions of passes of more than 20 yards in the last five games. He didn't have multiple 20-yard plus completions outing in the first 12 games of the season.

And that could be one of the reasons so many experts continue to say he's just an average quarterback. But average quarterbacks can't do what Wilson does, which is win more games than any QB in NFL history in his first three seasons.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/158357/wilsons-third-down-magic-too-much-for-carolina

Still staying with my New England/Seattle Super Bowl prediction. Seattle will shred Green Bay next week and New England will handle whoever comes out of the Broncos/Colts game.

It should be one of the better Super Bowls we've had in a while.

I'm immensely satisfied with Dallas' season, though. I predicted that they'd be lucky to win five or six games this year, but they proved me wrong. Once they draft some real talent on defense, they'll be pretty formidable.

That call was BS. It should be Dallas on their way to losing in CLink, not Green Bay.

While I wouldn't have been upset if they called it the other way, I can see their reasoning. The same ref made the same call on the Calvin Johnson catch a few years ago.

Dallas would've given Seattle a better game than Green Bay will. I expect that game will be...ugly.

That call was very clearly the right call according to the rule book. And for the Cowboys to complain about officials getting a close call right after the debacle of a non-PI call last week is pathetic.

Thankfully this means no more Chris Christie in my NFL coverage this season.

Packers win. <3

That was a fantastic call, by the way.

It's the NFC championship, they'll have to play Rogers, but yeah, I think with our D and his injury it will get ugly. I sincerely hope he doesn't get seriously injured.

His passer rating of 149.2 was the fifth-highest in postseason history and Wilson now has a career passer rating of 109.6 in the playoffs, the highest all time for any QB with at least 150 pass attempts.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/stor...struggles-super-bowl-champions-rest/21613905/

Win or lose in the Super Bowl, he'll be talked about as "elite" (why that matters so much is a mystery to me) after this season. He will have performed at a high enough level for long enough.

The NFL isn't college. Like it or not, longevity plays a big part in how a player is viewed by the press because they've seen too many flashes in the pan that fizzled after a hot season or two.

Seattle SHOULD beat Green bay? Depends on who wants it more. I'm sure on paper Seattle is favored but you NEVER know whats going to happen. Illness, Injuries, or just plain bad days happen. I am not a fan of either team, but shit happens, that's why they play the games. I've seen Seattle look just plain terrible at times this year, I've seen Green bay look bad at times too.

Maybe it's just the Seattle media ginning up controversy, but we're constantly fed quotes from national media on how Russell Wilson isn't considered 'Elite' instead he's just a very competent game manager on a Running and Defense team.

Case in point:

Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson is elite if you’re looking at wins
To the seemingly endless debate about whether he belongs among the elite quarterbacks in the NFL, Wilson may soon have the ultimate response: back-to-back Super Bowl titles.


DEAN RUTZ / THE SEATTLE TIMES
Russell Wilson does not throw for as many yards as the most prolific quarterbacks, but his ability to make big plays running has helped him win.

By Bob Condotta

Seattle Times staff reporter


DEAN RUTZ / THE SEATTLE TIMES
Seahawks QB Russell Wilson improved to 41-13, including the postseason, when he helped beat Carolina on Sunday.

It’s a question that Russell Wilson may answer the same way he has every other that has come his way — by winning games.

In fact, to the seemingly endless debate about whether he is one of the elite quarterbacks in the NFL, Wilson may soon have the ultimate response:

How can you deny inclusion to someone who has won back-to-back Super Bowls?

Only seven have done it — Bart Starr (1966-67 Packers), Bob Griese (1972-73 Dolphins), Terry Bradshaw (1974-75 and 1978-79 Steelers), Joe Montana (1988-89 49ers), Troy Aikman (1992-93 Cowboys), John Elway (1997-98 Broncos) and Tom Brady (2003-04 Patriots).

All are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame — the unquestioned elite of the elite — or soon will be.

In a season in which he could join that group, though, Wilson wasn’t even considered good enough to play in the Pro Bowl.

Wilson shrugged that off, saying that the six who were named had all had good seasons and all he wanted to do was play in the Super Bowl, but his coach said he didn’t think it made much sense.

“I’m still disappointed about the Pro Bowl thing in that regard because if you want to win, you want him on your team,” Seattle coach Pete Carroll said this week. “But I don’t know.”

The statement speaks to what remains the specific debate about Wilson and a larger one about the quarterback position in general — how best to judge an NFL quarterback?

If it’s simply winning, then Wilson’s credentials are impeccable, the word Carroll used to describe Wilson’s play in the divisional playoff victory over Carolina.

Wilson is 41-13 as a starting quarterback, including the postseason. That’s five more wins in the first three seasons of a career than any quarterback in NFL history (Joe Flacco and Dan Marino are next with 36).

But then there are those who look at his raw passing numbers and wonder if that record would be as glittering if the Seahawks had to rely on Wilson’s arm the way the Indianapolis Colts do with Andrew Luck.

Wilson was 15th this season in passing yards (3,475) and 23rd in yards per game (217), guiding a team built around its defense and running game — a philosophy that figures to last as long as Carroll is coach.

And though we can hear Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse protesting before we finish the sentence, their receiving corps is generally viewed as befitting of a team that is the only one in the NFL to run the ball more than it has passed in each of the last two seasons.

That has led to Wilson often getting tagged as a “game manager,” a phrase used to describe a quarterback who isn’t asked to win games by himself but act in more of a supporting role.

Those who want evidence for that view can turn to the influential football analytics website Pro Football Focus, which reviews every play for every player of every game. PFF this year rated Wilson as only the 13th-best quarterback in the NFL — behind the likes of Miami’s Ryan Tannehill and Houston’s Ryan Fitzpatrick — due largely to a rating of 19th in passing, behind the likes of Minnesota’s Teddy Bridgewater and Tampa Bay’s Mike Glennon.

Rick Drummond, editor-in-chief for PFF, noted that the site rated Wilson sixth in 2012 and fourth in 2013.

“So we’ve always had him rated really highly,” Drummond said.

Drummond said the site tries to grade based on what a player is being asked to do as well as the result. A quarterback, for instance, receives a better grade for a pass in which he throws it 50 yards downfield and it is then caught, than for a pass in which he throws it five yards and it then turns into a 50-yard completion.

Drummond said Wilson didn’t have as many positive passing plays this season, saying his average depth of target fell from right around 10 yards his first two seasons to 8.2 this year.

“The big thing has just been a change to more conservative targets,” he said.

That jibes with the fact Wilson’s yards per attempt this season were the lowest of his career — 7.69 compared to 8.25 in 2013 and 7.93 in 2012. And that helped contribute to his passer rating being the lowest of his career at 95.0 (still 10th overall in the NFL). His rating was 101.2 and 100.0 his first two seasons.

To which Carroll says, basically, so what?

“I think winning is pretty important,” Carroll said. “And he’s demonstrated that in historic fashion — even the club that he’s been on. He would be first to tell you it’s not all him. But he’s been on a team that’s won for the QB better than anybody in the history of the game (to start a career). Pretty cool I think.”






And if the label “game manager” had existed back in the day, Wilson would have been in good company.

Some of the repeat Super Bowl winning QBs, a group Wilson hopes to join, could have been viewed in a similar light — good defenses and running games tend to be common traits of great teams.

Starr, for instance, ranked as high as fourth in passing yards just once in his career and never higher than eighth in any other season.

Griese likewise ranked as high as fourth just once in his career in passing yards (and threw just seven passes, completing six, when the Dolphins won Super Bowl VIII in 1974 — admittedly a different era but symbolic of how that team played).

Aikman also ranked higher than eighth in passing yards just once in his career (fourth in 1992).

Bradshaw quarterbacked a team that had a defense regarded as among the best in NFL history, and Elway didn’t win a Super Bowl until running back Terrell Davis came around.

Consider further that no quarterback who has led the NFL in passing yards has ever won the Super Bowl, a trend that will continue this year with the elimination of Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger, who tied for that title in 2014 with 4,952.

Only one of the top six quarterbacks in passing yards remains alive — Luck, who was third with 4,761.

Four of the top seven in passing, though, were named to the Pro Bowl — Luck, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers and Roethlisberger.

“Those guys are typical NFL pocket passers and we are not that and we know that,” said Seattle guard J.R. Sweezy. “But we know our style of play, we know how to do it and we enjoy doing it. So we’ll stick with it.”

That style includes playing to what are Wilson’s unique strengths – something that sometimes gets lost in the debate over whether he is elite.

As Carroll says of great quarterbacks: “They’re not all the same size, style, or makeup — they have their ways about them.”

Wilson’s way is admittedly a different one, best symbolized by the 849 yards rushing he gained this season, sixth-most in NFL history.

“He may not be in the same style as an elite guy in the NFL,’’ Sweezy said. “But he may be the most elite guy of all. … He’s the best quarterback in the league in my opinion. He’s a threat any way you look at it. Every time he has the ball in his hands, he has the capability of making a big play.’’

Carroll likes to cite the fact that with Wilson as quarterback, the Seahawks have never lost a game in which they didn’t have a chance to still win in the final two minutes (the largest margin of defeat under Wilson is nine points, 30-21 at San Diego earlier this season).

“He’s hard to beat,” Carroll said.

Elite or not.

Bob Condotta: 206-515-5699 or bcondotta@seattletimes.com. On Twitter @bcondotta.

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahaw...xml.html#_ga=1.259481100.721886538.1408066045

Those Seahawks aren't looking so good at all right now. :O

If they come back and win this, it's gonna require an immense choke job by the Packers.

Wow. This game is ugly all right!