Gas Just Hit Below $2.99 in Sacramento

You might be a redneck...

It's called a TRAILER

Using my Kroger points, (20 cents off a gallon) I just filled up for $2.47...

WCS prices have more or less stayed the same, so no.

Canada wants Keystone to get WCS to worldwide markets and increase the demand for it. More demand means the price should go up. Right now the price differential is pretty small compared to Brent, so its not a big deal. Canada has been selling $80/bbl oil for years.

I did see that TransCanada sent in the proposal for the pipeline that will take oil to Eastern Canadian refineries. If that goes through, Obama is going to be looking pretty stupid. Oil will go back up to $100/bbl, and WCS will be lower, and when Canada starts exporting more oil to worldwide markets rather than sending it to the US, gas prices in the US will go up again. Of course, US oil production might be enough to make up the difference but it will take some time.

At the end of the day, Keystone would benefit the US, but Canada has obviously chosen a different route.

Canada has been selling oil at $80/bbl for years. No Keystone has not changed that. But nice try.

Obviously Canada wants the Keystone pipeline for more direct access to worldwide markets to get better pricing, but the market would correct itself after that and probably erase the price differential between WCS and other kinds of oil. At the end of the day the US would be benefiting from Keystone simply because it would keep Canadian oil going to American refineries by pipeline which is FAR cheaper than by rail, truck or by sea. Because of the political shitshow the US government has created, Canadian companies are now proposing sending their oil east to Canadian refineries. Guess where it will go from there? Worldwide markets. Guess who won't benefit at all from that? The US. Guess where US gas prices will go? Up.

The only reason gas prices have dropped is because of across the board drop in the demand in the worldwide market. The US is only part of that. Even with increased drilling in the US, if the global economy picks up again, which it will, prices will go up again. When that happens, the US will wish they had Keystone in place.

http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2012/05/17/how-the-keystone-xl-pipeline-could-raise-gas-prices/

Azure, I would like you to read that NPR article about how the keystone pipeline would cause gas prices to go up in certain areas. Those areas are currently getting lower gas prices because there is a glut of oil in that region which is hard to bring to market. If the keystone were built then most of that oil would end up in Asia and so prices would rise in the parts of north America currently benefiting from lower prices due to transport constraints.

The glut of oil is having ripple effects in the ag commodity sector as well, as northern farmers can't get their crops out to market.

Let's not forget who owns those trains, and is a big friend to the administration...

Would that be the Koch Brothers?

No?

Then maybe Donald Trump?

Not him?

Dick Cheney?

What? Oh come on.... he is Halliburton and they own everything under the sun! Dammit......

Give me time I have to go look it up.......

The glut of oil is due to inefficient rail transport and slow construction of loading and holding stations. Once that is fixed that specific issue will go away. I'm not sure what the article is getting at. Most Canadian oil is sent to pre-selected refineries for further processing. One would think the 'glut', or decrease in supply would lead to HIGHER prices. Isn't that how supply and demand works?

Fact is that the gas prices are determined by worldwide oil consumption. Right now due to worldwide demand being down(India, China, Europe, US)....prices are falling. The glut has zero to do with anything. US refineries are still getting all the oil they want/need via rail. There is just too much gasoline on the market right now, so prices are dropping to offset the supply. Basic high school economics.

Rail transport has been able to transport Canadian oil more or less the way Canadian companies have wanted. Most people in the industry say that increased production will only create a problem around 2018 since no new railways are really being built, and being able to move more oil via rail has more to due with operating more efficiently and creating more buffer zones like holding stations.

At the end of the day, a pipeline is better because it is cheaper, safer and faster. It also creates more good paying long-term construction jobs, something North America needs. Oil isn't going anywhere soon. My guess is you will see huge advances made in carbon capture and storage that will more or less cut emissions from 'oil' by enough to make everyone happy.

Unless of course 100 nuclear plants are built in North America, and Tesla gets everyone to buy an electric car. Which isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Fundamental shifts in the market take time.

Canada had the same problem and actually had to impose fines on the railways that refused to move the grain.

At the end of the day, transporting the oil via pipeline instead of rail simply is a lot more beneficial across all faucets of the economy. The environmental impact argument is a joke, considering the oil is STILL going to the US regardless. I actually find it laughable that people think delaying Keystone will change anything in that regard.

The only thing that will happen now is that Canada will go ahead and build the Eastern pipeline that sends Canadian oil to refineries in Eastern Canada. This will create a ripple effect down the line and in the end the US will lose out.

I know everyone is thinking increased drilling the US will offset the oil they won't get from Canada, but it takes years to get that supply system into place. There is a hell of a lot more involved than simply pumping the oil from the ground.

Except my point was that if the US made sure they kept the Canadian oil flowing, they could do a lot better in terms of keeping gas prices down simply because it is cheaper to bring in Canadian oil, even via Keystone, than it is to bring in oil from OPEC. The more oil Canada sends to worldwide market, the higher prices in the US go. The more oil Canada sends to the US, the more stable the prices will stay.

See, that's always the argument. "B-B-But itll take too much time to build in the U.S.!" Until the next oil crisis comes along.

Maybe when D.C. is pushing 5 bucks a gallon at thepump, we'll see some change, be it Azure's pipeline or (preferrably) a bigger push for hybrid and/or alternative fuel cars.

Well I'm all for alternative energy, but it needs to be big enough and easy enough so that low-income people can use it.

Tesla is great, but the family that has a tough time making more than $40,000/year isn't going to be buying a Tesla car anytime soon.

Yeah, I agree on that completely. Even Priuses have only just now become semi affordable.

The bigger problem is the infrastructure for electric and other fuels. The former could be easily gotten around by bigger companies working with local power companies to get charging stations installed in their parking lots. Hey, if I'm gonna spend three hours in line during Black Friday at Target, I may as well get something out of it besides a hospital bill

Azure, they're saying local spot prices are loer than otherwise due to large local inventories and difficulties transporting it outside of the region to wider global markets. This is the same problem the farmers are having because oil companies are buying up all the space on the trains leaving less room for grain cars. Yes, the keystone would help to relieve this bottle neck but that would also mean gas prices going up in the upper midwest and upper rockies. Probably even for as far away as the PNW.

I'd actually like to see Canada build its own pipeline to the Pacific as that would mean all of the environmental risk would be in Canada rather than in the US. Remember tar sands oil is very heavy so it sinks in water rather than floats so spills of it can't be cleaned up using traditional water skimming methods. Lastly, to get tar sands oil to flow they have to mix it with acid to help it flow easier and that acid just eats up traditional pipelines requiring a lot more maintence and a higher likelihood of pipeline breakages.

I say, let Canada deal with that mess especially since it is unclear if their northern gateways pipeline proposal will even go forward as the tribal landowners in BC have said they don't want it on their land.

Go on.......

Big enough for the whole family.

But that means you need access to affordable electricity that doesn't result in even more emissions. Obviously nuclear is the best way of doing this in terms of clean, but I'm not so sure about cheap.

Sorry, but I don't get that argument. Where are most refineries in the US located? Not in North Dakota. Canadian oil is sold to specific refineries.

The glut is due to, well...the glut. Too much oil on the market, hence the low prices. It is not region specific. Prices are falling all across the board depending on supply in the area.

The NPR link explains it. I've tried to relate the highlights to you but maybe reading the article will make it clearer. The price difference isn't nation wide and the lower prices are specific to the upper midwest and upper rockies. Yes, here are indeed refineries in those areas though, no, as you said they aren't as big as in other places like the Gulf coast.

Except Canadian oil is still going to the US via rail which happens to be a lot more dangerous. You can't see the forest for the trees and your dumbfuck argument is the same dumbfuck argument all the dumbfucks are using to justify not building Keystone.

Regardless of what the environmentalists bitch and moan about in regards to pipeline and environmental concerns, it isn't changing anything. The oil is still flowing.

Hilarious that you bring up these stupid arguments about Canadian oil being more inefficient to transport and more of a safety risk considering its been flowing to US refineries for decades. And now suddenly when we want to build a pipeline to make it better and more efficient you're concerned?

I read the article and it is stupid. The price differences are due to supply & demand in that local region. In other words, a gas station in bumfuck Montana is going to have a different price for gas than one in LA. Supply & demand.

WCS is sold by Canadian oil producers for market value. Right now that is around $80. A supply glut in North Dakota does not change that price in a specific region. And if there is a glut, it is minor. Canadian oil is getting where it needs too and still will to at least 2016. Maybe 2018.

Supply & demand. Oil production is at an all time high, demand is low. Price drops. OPEC will probably try to keep production up in hopes that other small producers will go down so they keep market value. So prices will probably stay low for a while.

I don't get why after 50+ years of Canadian oil flowing to the States, people still don't understand how it works.

Azure, the supply is higher in those specific regions because oil companies are having difficulties transporting it out of those regions. This is why they want the pipeline to ease that transport bottle neck. That means refi eries in that region benefit from lower spot prices as they buy their oil at that lower spot price.

Yes, it is supply and demand, that is what both NPR and I have been saying all along, but I think we're talking past each other.

What refineries? Just because there are a few bottlenecks in the area, doesn't mean you can just divert the train and send it to the local refinery.

If there would be a REAL problem transporting oil out of the region, that would indicate that there is a supply issue at the refineries it was intended to get too, which would drive gas prices up across the board. That is not happening.

Gas dropped to $3.07 on base today, and the one nearest my brother's recruiting station in Escondido is usually 15 cents lower than the base, making gass officially under 3 bucks in San Diego county!

Thanks, Obama!

$2.71 today #boom

It was $3.20 today when I filled up in the ass crack of America. That was for the regular the company truck took.

Here it's $2.82 uptown, but Downtown (less then 3 miles away) it's $2.58.. Probably because uptown is right of the Interstate.