The Southern Swastika

Yes, the South is doing better than it was - but that's why it was considered an economic backwater for 100 years. It has room to grow.

Let's look at some other stats, shall we?

Median income: The first 24 states have one thing in common. Not in the south.
8 of the 10 lowest incomes - in the South.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

Yeah, being poor compared to the rest of the country is such a big reason to brag.

Educational attainment by state. Oh look same trend:
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bac_deg_or_hig_by_per-bachelor-s-degree-higher-percentage
Virginia is the only 'Southern' state to be in the top 10, and that has a lot to do with it being the home of the Federal government. Northern VA, where most of these degrees reside, is not Southern.

You've got Georgia at 18. So of the top 25, the South has 2, and one of those should have an asterisk.

Bottom 10 - 7 of the 10 are from the South.

The South is a great place to retire. It's not a great place for the kids to grow up if they are looking for education and economic opportunities. Those still are dominated by the NE and West.

The guy that wrote your opinion piece also wrote 'the Blue State Suicide Pact' - ignoring the fact that in economic matters the blue states are dominant, and that the quality of living in the South is low even with low taxes, because those taxes don't provide the infrastructure and education that the Blue States get. Interestingly, the places he brags about in the South that are growing, such as Atlanta, Charlotte, and Austin, are all run by Democrats.

But then this goes back to the original discussion - not so smart, because you guys lie to yourselves so much.

What's more, you seek out opportunities to reinforce those lies, instead of looking critically at the data.

They may be just as well educated, but it's hard to believe a guy has any smarts when he's wearing a sleeveless tee with a rebel flag on it and a Clemson ball cap on backwards, talking like the guys in Deliverance.

Between my parents (retired to SC) and my sisters kids and grandkids (grew up in SC), you've (sadly) just described my family!

Yeah, pretty good chance my family will retire down there too - cost of living is dirt cheap, so living in the DC metro area we can save up a decent nest egg, buy a house in cash, and then melt in the sweltering summers like everyone else.

Oldfella can call me a carpetbagger and tell my grandkids to get off his lawn.

What's funny is that the article doesn't contradict Demiurge's point. Sure, it puts a rosy spin on it, but what the article describes is an economic backwater moving in to the industrial age -- high immigration, growth of manufacturing, both of which combine to create strong economic growth rates. Yes, it is similar to the Northeast in the 19th century, and the great Lakes region in the first half of the 20th. About time! But even the article acknowledges that the South is not producing Fortune 500 type industries.

The lower wages should make sense since the cost of living is lower, so that's a wash. As for carpetbaggers I am a transplanted Yankee myself with zero desire to live anywhere else. Visit other places of course, but not to live. 8 months out of the year where I live is great (4 months of bullshit planet Venus heat). My kids got much of their education the the south over the years, and are doing just fine employment or otherwise. So they may have gotten a late start but the north (especially the north-east and the rust belt) are in decline, to the point where many more leave than enter. And it's not just retired folks - Georgia (for example) has towns chock-full of working age families that are transplanted Yankees. And unless you are Fortune 500 businessman why would this be an issue? Most of us on WF are working class, and the working class can do very well down here indeed. The average pay in my company is about 45K or so after taxes, none of these positions requiring more than a 2 year degree. With rent/mortgage averaging around 900 a month (for a three or four bedroom home) that's not a bad deal.

Transplanted Yankees? That's a nice term for carpetbaggers.

Yeah, cost of living is a big deal - some of the carpet baggers I know get tech jobs, get the NE salaries, and then go live and work remote from the South. That's the golden ticket - 100k+ salaries, with low low cost of living.

There's a lot of great things about living in the South. And a lot of shitty things about the North.

But I hear a lot of Southerners have opinions that just don't track with reality - its harder in a lot of ways in the North as its far more competitive, and population density is higher.

No, and it's not even close. Here's a map that has been making the rounds on social media (how much a $100 basket of goods actually costs in each state):



Take a good look, wow, the dollar goes a lot further in those deep South states! Now, let's take a look at income:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

I took the top and bottom five states for per capita income, then used the data listed on the map to determine how many price adjusted $100 units can be purchased by the per capita income. It is a true measurement of what an average earner can actually buy in his respective state.




In the high income states, people have nearly twice the purchasing power as the people in the low income states. Yes, things cost less in low income states, but not nearly enough less to make up for income differentials.

[edit]
Forgot to mention, I don't think the $100 basket includes housing. Putting that in would no doubt bring the income to spending ratios closer, but not enough to equalize things out. Average housing costs are pretty consistently associated with average income, and the ratio doesn't change much from region to region. So what we are talking about is what can you spend after you pay the rent/mortgage. In each of the states I've listed, it should be about 60% of the indicated number. That means the high income states still have an almost 2:1 advantage on income measured against cost of living.

Groceries are important to be sure. You might end up paying an extra 100 dollars a month in Georgia, but in the north you pay an extra 1,000 dollars in rent. Not a math wizard but which of these numerical figures is the largest? That's why the military pays you more (a cost of living differential & housing allowance) to live in certain areas. And everyone I know realizes you might have to "tighten your belt" financially if you get orders to certain areas - most in the north and the west coast/Hawaii & Alaska. Most of the higher differential payments are in the north. But that's what impacts the people I work with - maybe for business people they come out ahead living in the north. But working from home in the south remotely for a northern company is a sweet deal. But wait - those people might miss out on cheaper groceries if they leave the north - somebody better warn them!

God I suck at math. It looks to me like those numbers are saying that the less stuff your money can buy, the better off you are.

No, they are comparing how much stuff you can buy with $100 and your total income. When Shoes spends $100 in North Carolina, he gets $9.17 more value than the average for the entire U.S. When gul spens $100 in Massachusetts, he gets $6.72 less value. But if both make the average income for their state, gul can spend $100 so many more times than shoes, that it doesn't matter if what he buys costs a bit more. Shoes can buy 17% more stuff with his $100, but gul makes 48% more money. That's basically the comparison.

Really, the advantage is even bigger than that, by a fair bit. Consider the question of how much money a person has leftover after taking care of basic necessities. After taxes, housing, a cheap well balanced diet, clothing, transportation, medical, phone, some baseline level of entertainment spending needed to maintain sanity, etc., that person making an average salary in Mississippi will have very little if anything left over to spend on luxuries or to save, while the person making an average salary in Maryland can easily have $10K-$15K. Discretionary spending/saving for the Maryland resident is probably an order of magnitude higher than for the Mississippi resident.

48 percent more money? Weird, GS jobs (for example) only pay you about 15 or 20 percent more in expensive areas - that's a far cry from 48 percent. Then again "annual average income" factors in people on welfare, unemployment, retired, incarcerated, etc. and the south might very well have many in this category, thus lowering the average wage. I'm just saying a lot of working class people feel that if they can get the same job in the south, they prefer the south. Maybe you don't know a lot of GS workers or contractors or whatever. A lot of them don't like paying 2500 a month for less home than they paid 1000 a month for. That's about 18,000 dollars more annually for rent. Let's say that they get a 20 percent raise from the 40,000 they used to get, bumping them to 48,000. Bottom line they are 10,000 more "house poor." Would a years worth of cheaper shoes, food, gas, etc. add up to saving more than 10,000 dollars? If so, living in the north pays off. So far (anecdotal I know) not many people who have families I know in my peer group/career field prefered to live in the north. As I said, maybe it depends on your specific job.

And that's why it makes so much sense to retire in the South, other than the weather. You have a those blue state wages, which if you are smart you've saved up over time, and you can spend on red state prices.

Though these days, with so many red states deciding not to pick up the ACA Medicare provisions, you have to really weigh that against the cost advantages.

And there's no way in hell I'd raise my kid in the South, unless it was in one of those urban blue areas. Crappy taxes means crappy schools, and you are putting your kids very much behind when it comes to their future prospects.

Really? Do tell! My county has some of the best schools even compared to other states, not just in Georgia. Then again we are a red county. Most of our government offices are on Ronald Reagan Drive! The blue county across the tracks has poorly performing schools with a 50 percent HS dropout rate. Ummm.......what was your point again? It seems you don't really know what you are talking about.

But say I live in Alabama, but make the average income of Maryland. By Demi's math, aren't I still better off making that much and living in Maryland.

I went through and multiplied by the ratio instead of dividing by the percentage, and the upper states still come out ahead.

No. You are better off making Maryland wages and paying Alabama prices. But you can't get that, so it shouldn't factor in to the analysis.

Better you than me pal - I like Alabama. Now take Maryland.........please!

This worth a look - a guy decided to add musical accompaniment to the KKK march in SC. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but the KKK getting their own soundtrack wins the interwebz for the week:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/wat...-confederate-flag-marchers-and-its-hilarious/

Unless you can make Maryland wages but work out of your home in Alabama as was brought up - but I don't think many people are in such a position.

I don't have speakers - what is the soundtrack playing?

But I can make $70K while living in Alabama. I was pointing out the problem with the math.

^

Um, averages?

Seriously?

I think it starts out with a goofy tuba version of the marching music of the enchanted broom in Fantasia, then he segues into a goofy tuba version of Ride of the Valkyries.

:dur:

That's not the claim anyone in the history of ever has made.

A. I smell shenanigans and am waiting to comment on the particulars of this story until an investigation is done; and
B. unless the car that ran him off the road was filled with government agents, it has nothing to do with the post you replied to.