Anita Sarkeesian presents: Eight things developers can do to make games less shitty for women.

I sure it is much easier to DEMAND :angry: that everyone else conform to what she wants though. I mean actually creating original content t which people are willing to pay for is hard so it is much easier to try to bully and censor other people especially when she can pretend she is a faux victim and make hundreds of thousands doing that. Yep, much less effort doing that.

Not to mention when she presents her vision of the future of gaming and it belly flops people probably won't listen to her demands any more. That would be the end of the gravy train so best to avoid that.

There are indie games out there that fullfill her standards, but she doesn't give a shit.

Is this as bad as the last time Armenian feminists pissed off the Turkish gamers?

Again, she has never done so in any of her other analyses, and she certainly hasn't in that tweet. So post some proof that she completely changes her MO this one time, or admit you're wrong.

That entire list seems reasonable.

Given Packard's dishonesty, I figured I'd better clarify.

Archangel's 3, 4, & 8 could've been put more delicately, but it does raise the point that if one wants to cry about look-ism, then they have to take on all of Hollywood and TV while they're at it.
I won't hold my breath.

Also, post #28.

Bullshit.
I went and watched footage of Bayonetta, and it's over the top, and satirical, like a fucking Bugs Bunny cartoon.
It even goofs on some of the tropes Sarkeesian complains about.

The term "fuck doll", fails literally and figuratively, and ignores the intent of the content utterly in a way that can only be intentional.

Ok, I'm getting tired of moving targets here. Your claim several posts up was quite different. You claimed to be able to show that Sarkeesian, in that tweet, indicted the intentions of the designer as opposed to any intent ascribed to the content.

As for her analysis of Bayonetta, I too disagree with her on that. But that doesn't make her or me or you a liar; it's just a difference of opinion on a topic well worth discussing, emphasizing the worth of the discussion she started.

And if she made a game that was largely similar to what's successful now, with the exception of the raging misogyny -- and it tanked, as you speculate a few posts further down -- what would it indicate? Would it be an indictment of Sarkeesian's position? Or would it indicate that there is a mass market of gamers who like to wallow in raging misogyny and won't buy a game that deliberately excludes it?

And what does it say about the "gaming community" that games that aren't shitty toward women are relegated to "indie" status?

Not a thing. The gaming community is what the gaming community is. What it says to me is that Sarkeesian is tilting at windmills.

So you're saying artists should self censor their art?

I mean as loathe as some are to admit it, games are a form of art, like books or any other form of performing art.

I wonder if I were to care enough to dig through the archives here how many of the anti-gamer people here I would find rabidly defending some other piece of "offensive" art.

Are there any anti-gamer people here? Seems to me you're just using that term to describe "gamers who don't agree with @Archangel". Well, I guess @garamet is the one exception who isn't a gamer herself, but she seems more indifferent than anti.

Similarly, you seem to use the concept of 'censorship' to refer to "game criticism that @Archangel doesn't agree with".

I can't decide whether your world is outrageously comfy or filled with excessive fears. But it's not the same world I inhabit.

I see Sarkeesian's comments as just that--comments. In the same way that others here are free to ignore criticism of their work, so are game producers. The saying goes, however, that for every student who asks a question during class, there are probably at least five others who had the same question and were too afraid to ask it.

TK, it will show if there is a market for what she is demanding every company exclusively produce or expose her as being just another screaming faux victim who is clueless and full of shit. Based upon her previous work my money is on the later.

This trope again?

Let's put aside for the moment what @garamet and others have pointed out over and over again -- that all artists make choices about what to include and what not to include in their work, and that many times, those choices are motivated by how they want their audience to respond to the work.

You can make whatever you want. You can make your artwork as misogynistic as you want. It's just that it's sort of silly to get enraged when somebody calls you on it.

And in most media, you don't see fans frothing at the mouth and issuing rape threats left and right when an artist they like is criticized. That alone makes it worth asking "what the heck is going on here."

And if not making art full of raging misogyny constitutes "self-censorship" ... well, what does that say about the person in question?

I am sorry reality upsets you but it is just a fact that demands for self censorship are still a form of censorship.

Oh, and please stop repeating the false trope about rape threats. It is offensive to anyone who has suffered real harm from violence as opposed to being simply trolled on the internet for lying.

Are you practicing "self-censorship" every time you don't scream obscenities at your colleagues, your boss, a client, a waiter, a store clerk, or a random person you encounter on the street for doing something that annoys you?

Or is that just "exercising good judgment and not being an ass"?

If every criticism is a demand for self-censorship and every demand for self-censorship is censorship, then everyone criticising Sarkeesian for her talks, vids and tweets is a censor.

Alternatively, we could just stick to the real world, where people can freely disagree with each other.

Aha, good point.

Why are you demanding that Sarkeesian censor herself? Huh? Huh?

Kind of like you taking on all organized religion by posting on a message board.

A bit of both through the gender baiters really have copied the modus operandi of race baiters so it is very reasonable to expect all manner of defamation and slander if they don't comply with their censorship demands.

So Bayonetta 2 is no longer available for purchase?

Oh, stop lying. There is a huge difference between not committing a crime or following business protocols and threatening companies if they don't exclusively produce only what you personally like and you know it.

Thankfully, horrible faux victim gender baiting shills like Sarkeesian have not yet gotten their way. I would like to keep it that way. You on the other hand... You seem all to happy to give in to censorship.

What are they being threatened with?

We've gone over this.

They are threatened with being called misogynists for producing works that depict women in a misogynist fashion. That's just like being threatened with rape and murder.

chop chop....you've got at least 8 more pages to go.

Where is she doing that? This is a list of suggestions. Did you read the OP?

Who is Anita Sarkeesian and why should I give a fuck what she wants? Oh, she thinks that the painful screams of female chars in video games sound like female orgasms. Now that's an issue whe should discuss. It's important.

Ffs...