The Southern Swastika

I guess George Lucas needs to fuck with Star Wars again and remove rebel alliance from dialog in the OT.

Don't forget the changes to Firefly.

Not all Rebels are Confederate Rebels, you ignorant goobers. The term is Latin (Rebellis), and predates the confederacy by several millennia. Lucas and Whedon has as much right to use it as anyone else, you useless jackasses, and their use of it doesn't have diddly to do with the treasonous Confederacy.

You'd think an "historian" like Federal Farmer would know what the word means, and might also know that the original rebels in the U.S., also known as Patriots, were folks like Washington and Adams. Rebels aren't the problem. It's a flag that has long been used to promote racism that is the problem.

Why are you calling the militant wing of the Democrat party "treasonous"? Is it because of their Iran negotiations?

For the same reason you maintain that Conservative men blow dogs even better than your mother does.





Oh, and I almost forgot:

Did you ever even see Firefly?

Mewa's the Firefly expert around here. He's seen all four episodes.

Yeah, it's difficult to view the Browncoats divorced from the US Civil War. Star Wars' Rebel Alliance, however, not so much.

Unlike Mewa, I've seen all the episodes and the movie, but I never really felt it was specifically an allegory to the US Civil War. If anything, it was more of an allegory to the American Revolution, but with a different ending to the war.

George Lucas no longer has the authority to screw with the OT and for that we should all be happy.

Yeah. Firefly was a US Civil War allegory in the same sense that it was an allegory about life in China. It wasn't. Hell, it far more closely resembles an allegory about the Greek people in the current crisis than any of the aforementioned possibilities, and of course it isn't remotely or possibly that either.

True, but I think that one was a sarcastic swipe at how now that so many politicians are talking about getting rid of the battle flag, some people are already moving on and talking about getting rid of other Confederate monuments.

I don't know if I would call it allegory, but it was definately influenced by the US Civil War. Whedon himself said that he got the idea for it after reading The Killer Angels.

Hmm, I read that book, and really, I just don't see it, not even remotely.

Oops, you mentioned The Outlaw Josie Wales, now we gotta ban that movie because he was a Confederate soldier. It's the only way to stop racism.

Whether or not that's really the case, historical novels are not histories; they are novels with loosely historical elements. And having a lightbulb go on after reading a historical novel, and perhaps borrowing a few mythological elements from that historical novel, does not remotely equate to being influenced by the underlying history of the novel setting.

The search for the historical Civil War in Firefly is kind of like the search for the historical Jesus in the bible; if it's there it's barely there at all, and to whatever extent it's there it's there in an entirely superficial manner and the historical elements are essentially irrelevant to the story.

I can't get my head around how someone could see Firefly and not see how much of it was influenced by the Civil War.

The whole setting was basically the Reconstruction era in space minus the racism.

Yep. And stand by what I said 100%. The Independents/Browncoats aren't called "rebels" (Whedon insisted the term never be used). They certainly weren't fighting to preserve slavery or some other immoral way of life.

Influenced by it, but far from an analog of it (more an antithesis). And that "minus the racism" is pretty fucking significant.

Also, what Gul said a few posts back. The imagery of the setting has civil war influences, but it's really more an analog of the revolutionary war, had the British won.

While we smack our gums and blow hot air about the movie, hundreds of violent racists acts are being planned or committed because of that movie. We don't have time to waste! BTW we need to send Billy Idol to a "reeducation camp" for Rebel Yell.

Of course not, but regardless, the Browncoats were obviously analogous with the Confederates, but without the slavery/racism.

Lund: I'm thinkin' somebody needs to put you down, dog. What do you think?
Mal: I'm thinking we'll rise again.

Yeah. Nothing analogous with the Confederacy there.

Well, they guy who created it thinks differently.

I can honestly say I never drew any comparisons between Firefly and any part of American history while I was watching it.

Probably why I enjoyed it so much.

Not so much minus the slavery. It's discussed alongside indentured servitude, and while we only see the latter on screen in the few episodes they made, it's clear that the former also exists.

Oh yeah. How could I forget Canton?

Sorry if I ruined the show for anybody.

Dude, Whedon flat out SAID it was a Civil War allegory.

I think @Man Afraid of his Shoes is right in that it isn't really an allegory. But it certainly plays with the motifs and cliches and traditions. It's part of what keeps viewers on their toes as far as identification and sympathy goes.